Name: Juan Carlos Alfonso Victor Maria de Borbon y Borbon, better known as H.M. Juan Carlos I of Spain
Birth: January 5, 1938 in Rome, Italy
Claim to Fame: Athletic son of the exiled King of Spain is handpicked by fascist Franco to be his successor; squanders opportunity by peacefully ushering in pluralistic, parliamentary democracy
Power Base: The Spanish army, and entrenched interests among the Spanish political and business elite
Google Hits: 41,800 hits for “king juan carlos antichrist” as of 7/13/06
Merits: The late Charles R. Taylor forcefully made the case for Juan Carlos in his book The Antichrist King: Juan Carlos (1994), and many antichrist watchers have recently taken up his cause. Among other pieces of evidence, the Juan Carlos proponents (“JCers,” I call them) cite the following:
- According to Daniel 7:23-25, the “prince who will come” will be the leader of the 11th nation to join the revived Roman Empire, or, as interpreted by the JCers, the European Union. Spain was the 11th nation to join the EU.
- According to Daniel 9:27, the antichrist shall “confirm a treaty with many for one week.” “One week” is taken to mean “seven years” by JCers; but more importantly, when surveying the world for places in desperate need for a treaty of some kind which also have some biblical significance, the JCers point to tensions in the Middle East. Oddly enough, it appears that Juan Carlos has been playing either an indirect or a direct role in the Middle East peace process for some time. The 1991 Madrid Conference which kicked off multi-lateral talks among Israel, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and representatives of Palestine, initiated by the Americans and the Russians, was hosted by the Spanish government. Subsequently, Israel lobbied hard for Juan Carlos to take a leading role in mediating Israeli and Palestinian differences in 2001; and many have observed that the body most likely to monitor any resolution of Middle East tensions is NATO, which from 1995-99 was headed by former Spanish foreign minister Javier Solana.
- Various renderings of Juan Carlos’ name (in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, French, German and Russian) apparently add up to ‘666’ under numerological scrutiny.
- Juan Carlos is said to be a descendant of those dastardly Merovingians, the ancient Frankish kings who were the focus of Dan Brown’s ramblings in The Da Vinci Code.
- Juan Carlos allegedly has a yacht called The Dragon, seen as a reference to Satan, who is depicted as a dragon in Revelations 13: 2, 11-14.
- The 1992 Summer Olympic Games, held in Barcelona, were particularly freaky to some JCers, featuring a closing spectacle described as follows:
[The closing spectacle was] an exercise in demonic/pagan symbolism which ended with the mating of a Black Serpent and the Greek goddess of love and fertility, the multi-breasted Artemis who then gave birth to the “Great Dragon,” the head of which rose 75 feet above the top of the stadium. The alleged theme of the pageant was the birth of the world in fire and it was represented by 250 happy devils . . . who began the “festival of fire.” Giant wooden structures, including 2 caped figures of Satan and grinning goats’ heads, were set ablaze and constantly moved through the cavorting devils. A group of devils, one dressed in the robes of a king, danced frenziedly around a fiery maypole . . . Weird tones, underlaid with constant jungle drumming, were sporadically joined by eerie wails, long sighs and howling. Occult symbols were everywhere. Well represented was the Baphomet (goat’s head of witchcraft), the pentagram or “devils star,” the maypole, which is an ancient pagan phallic symbol, and demonic faces, well endowed with horns. As expected, television network commentators were “awed” by the spectacle. At times the audience joined the celebration, swaying to the demonic music with arms outstretched to heaven. [sic]
Quay Fortuna’s Analysis: A favorite among hardcore apocalyptic Christians, Juan Carlos looks like a pretty good candidate on paper, and unlike other constitutional monarchs, he seems to hold some sway over his dominion. He stepped right into Franco’s shoes after the death of the Generalissimo in 1975, but was expected to be a puppet beholden to prime minister Arias Navarro, and a figurehead of the continuation of the old authoritarian regime. Instead, Juan Carlos removed Arias Navarro from power and pressured his successors to enact political reforms culminating in free democratic elections. He kept the Spanish army in check through an attempted coup in 1981, as well as through the rise of the Socialist Party in 1982 and its subsequent decline.
Still, Juan Carlos has an underwhelming public profile where the rest of the world is concerned. He has all the bearing and elegance one would expect of an Armani-clad 21st century royal (Vanity Fair has called him one of the world’s best dressed men), and we suspect that over the course of his life he has developed some of the usual decadent vices commonly exhibited among those in his class. That kind of understated charm, though, has not translated into anything like a worldwide following of blind admiration. Mucking about with Castilian plantation owners and an occasional irate Arab doesn’t add up to a profile of global domination, either. It just doesn’t seem likely to me that Satan would choose a somewhat diffident and faceless representative from a fading Old European institution to be the vessel of his terror and world domination. But that’s what Satan thinks I’ll be thinking!
Okay, let’s be practical. Here are a few ideas of things Juan Carlos could try if he really needs to firm up popular support for any future demonic plans:
- Launch a new signature fragrance;
- Tour Africa with Bono or Brad and Angelina;
- Do something you need to apologize for, and appear contrite on Larry King or Oprah (preferably both);
- Hire Elliot Mintz as your publicist; and
- Get your own reality TV show.
July 23, 2006 at 11:32 am
Whoever you are, you seem blissfully unaware of King Juan Carlos’ ACTUAL power in world affairs. Are you really that ignorant of Spain’s influence in the European Union, as exemplified by Javier Solana, and at least until recently, Miguel Moratinos? Have you never heard of the “Barcelona Process”, nor that the Middle East Peace Process BEGAN in Madrid, Spain? Is the fact that Israel was looking to King Juan Carlos to “confirm” a peace with its enemies back in August or so of 2000 something you had never known?
Blimey – you seem to think the Antichrist will be some uber-popular world figure BEFORE he arises to power. Much more likely he will be someone widely known, but not having “over exposed” himself prior to his “full revealing”. I mean, really, your view would do away with practically all the dramatic effect one would think the Antichrist would desire upon foisting himself upon the world.
And, “gematria” is not “numerology”. Research a bit more on the terms, and on the usage by the Hebrew and Greek languages of their alphabets for numbers.
January 21, 2014 at 3:34 pm
The prince that shall come in not King Juan Carlos but his son Prince Felipe! How do you miss the obvious?
June 3, 2014 at 10:35 am
nailed it!
maybe…
June 3, 2014 at 10:39 am
and don’t forget
he (if it is him) is just a straw man for the fake Jesus who comes to destroy him
July 28, 2006 at 6:06 am
A. Innaugurated the Middle East Peace Process
B. Innaugurated the EURO JAN.1 2002 in Brussels
C. First leader Bush met with on his first European trip and first leader Bush met with at Texas ranch after re-election.
D. First country to use biometric chip implants.
E. Honorary president of COTEC that makes chip tracking devices in cars.
F. Visit to Jerusalem in which hispanic newspapers of the world read “King of Kings arrives in the Holy Land”
G. Created LATAM dominating all of Latin America through peaceful contact.
H. May 1998 issure of the NEW YORKER stated he has the most impressive family tree than any other person in the world.
I. Front row of Pope John II funeral, in front of George Bush.
J. Chose to live in a 12,500 acre secluded forest on the outskirts of Madrid.
K. Speaks all the major languages.
L. MILITARY: LAND,SEA,AIR
M. INTERNATIONAL LAW,ECONOMICS,TAXATION
N. Killed his brother at age 18
O. Baptized with water from the Jordan River
P. Most prestigous member of OPUS DEI
Q. First world leader Bush telephoned morning of going to war in Iraq.
R. Dragon ship
S. Loved by Jewish and Muslim leaders
T. Investigation into collapse of WTC held at KING JUAN CARLOS CENTER IN MANHATTEN
U. HONORARY SPEAKER AT BICENTENIAL INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT
V. BILL CLINTON SAID THE KING IS STEERING THE WORLD INTO A NEW ERA AND THAT HE FELT HE WAS A SUBJECT OF THE KING.
W. OWNS 40% OF THE TOLL ROADS IN TEXAS
X. DISTANT COUSIN OF GEORGE BUSH
Y. PATRON OF CHILDREN OF GOD CULT (PEDOPHILIA)
Z. DRESSED LIKE SATAN IN VANITY FAIR PHOTO TAKEN IN LONDON. HE EVEN WEARS THE OCCULT P2 SYMBOL CIRCLE OF TEN WITH THE POINT WITHIN THE CIRCLE. THE TEN MAN INNER CIRCLE (10 HORNS) WITH ANTICHRIST COMING UP AMONG THEM.
i. New POPE recently visited him and he recently visited the Kremlin.
ii. Stated he needs to remain BEHIND the scenes and ABOVE the political arena to have real power and influence.
iii. IS NEVER SEEN YET MEETS EVERY WORLD LEADER EITHER IN HIS PALACE OR BY TRAVELS AROUND THE GLOBE.
IV. HAD TO BE BORN IN ROME, I CAN SEE IF HE WAS BORN IN SPAIN THEN HE WOULD NOT BE THE CANDIDATE, BUT COME ON MAN NOT ONLY WAS HE BORN IN ROME BUT BECAME THE KING OF THE 11TH NATION TO JOIN EU AND THEN TO EVEN FURTHER CLAIM THE THRONE IN JERUSALEM JUST LIKE THE BIBLE TEACHES. ALL 3? ROME, SPAIN,JERUSALEM
IF IT LOOKS LIKE A DUCK AND QUACKS LIKE A DUCK, IT IS A DUCK!!!!
September 28, 2011 at 10:01 pm
just know this .
In prophetical terms a day is a year ( as above 7 years to the week )
Daniel says that the
* The devil is not a person it’s a system ( Sun worship )
* Only the Vaticans head and no one else can crown a King .. King of Kings
* The Beast receives a seemingly deadly wound … Dated by Daniel to be 1796 when Napoleon makes his General dethrone the Pope and shuts the Vatican down , that was a crafty maneuver by Napoleon the 32nd Degree Freemason and his bother of Spain , just a well orchestrated spectacle according to walter veith as the Vatican is said to reappear x amount of prophetic days later “as it does” more powerful then ever
I can go on and on I just suggest you watch WALTHER VEITH with more than 60 hours of Lectures online .
God bless
November 6, 2013 at 12:48 am
Excellent post! You laid it all out with precision!
July 28, 2006 at 6:29 am
Oh, and NUMEROUS ATTEMPTS on his life for years have all been unsuccessful. Even as a child he had to be kept moving constantly from Italy,Switzerland,Portugual and finally Spain where he would be safe under Franco’s watchful eye. HIS PARENTS GAVE HIM UP AFTER BIRTH.
July 31, 2006 at 9:00 am
“IF IT LOOKS LIKE A DUCK AND QUACKS LIKE A DUCK, IT IS A DUCK!!!!”
Adrian, you probably don’t realize it, but with the above statement, in this context, I believe you have “revealed” the meaning of a series of strange coincidences I had a couple of weeks ago or so regarding “ducks”. (I’m being serious.) I’m not going to describe all the details here, but those coincidences were related to a theory I have that “Quetzalcoatl” will be the “foreign god” mentioned in Daniel 11 as the “god” the Antichrist will “exalt”. King Juan Carlos has some significant “connections” to Mayan/Aztec myths, particularly Quetzalcoatl. (Do an Internet search on “King Juan Carlos” and “Quetzal route”, or “Ruta Quetzal” or “Ruta Quetza”.)
If you could, I would appreciate it if you would email me references for some of your claims regarding Juan Carlos (such as that Bill Clinton said he considered himself a “subject” of King Juan Carlos). You can email me at douglas2221@hotmail.com . Thanks.
September 28, 2011 at 10:03 pm
watch Valther Veith
August 3, 2006 at 2:52 am
while browsing a lot of web pages regarding antichrist candidates (for fun) I would say yours is on top 10, congratulations, I liked it very much.
August 11, 2006 at 6:52 am
The name of the spanish King´s yatch is not “Dragón”. The correct name is “Bribón” (loafer, cheater, in a likeable form) and is only for competition.
And the name of the recreation yacht is “Fortuna” (fortune)
August 13, 2006 at 10:53 pm
El Irregular,
Perhaps, but can you show whether or not his yacht BACK IN 1993-1994 was named “Dragon”? In any case, it is at least interesting that the NFL Europe football (American-style) team from Barcelona had the name “Dragons”, and that their logo was a dragon’s head done very much in an Aztec/Mayan art style.
August 15, 2006 at 12:59 pm
it’s not Juan Carlos. it’s his son Felipe. he will hold the same titles his father doesn. plus he has greek royalty from his mother. the antichrist will have the ears of the people, do you think they’ll follow an old man or a handsome young one? plus biblical prophecy says that when jerusalem is under israeli control, the countdown of the last generation will begin. that happened in 1967. Felipe was born in 1968
August 17, 2006 at 11:16 pm
Jesse,
That might very well be. Actually, I found that Felipe has a version of his name in Greek which calculates to 666. It could be either one, though I lean towards his father.
August 19, 2006 at 2:12 pm
it says in Daniel that the antichrist will make laws. Felipe has a law degree
September 28, 2011 at 10:09 pm
Goodness me a law degree .No man
times and Laws ,
LAWS is the sabbath that we don’t respect ! Saturday is the day of the lord . SUNDAY is the day of the SUN WORSHIPERS !
TIME is the Calender , we should follow the Julian Calender like the better Christians the Serbs and Russians .
The reason Pope Gregori changed the days is to make us all worship on the Pageant days of worship .
Pay attention …. Our true Christian days are celebrated in the Julian calender !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Pope Gregory changed the calender to move the true Christian days to Pageant days …
THE ONES YOU NOW FOLLOW !
god bless
August 19, 2006 at 6:58 pm
Jesse,
The Book of Daniel says that he will seek to change “times and law”. Most likely, this is in reference to the laws and “times” (feasts?) of Israel. But since it isn’t specific as to what “times and law” mean, one can’t be adamant.
September 28, 2011 at 9:51 pm
no its reference to the Gregorian calender , by changing the date Pope Gregori moved the “true Christians days ” to sun worshiping days . Watch Walther Veith
August 19, 2006 at 10:46 pm
I don’t know about you but I think Pat Robertson is an anti-christ. At the very least he is definately a false-prophet of well biblical proportions.
August 19, 2006 at 11:52 pm
A wolf in sheep’s clothing, yes.
August 20, 2006 at 6:48 pm
robertson certainly isn’t a christian by any christian standards but there are a lot of him out there. the one and true false prophet however will be the last pope. he’ll have two horns like a lamb showing he’s “christian”. to have that influence he’ll have to be the most popular christian in the world, which would be the pope. catholic prophecies even say the last pope will betray the faith. there is only one pope left after the current one. Pope Petrus Romanus will be the antichrist’s right-hand man and the candlestick of the church of Ephesus will be removed from its place.
August 20, 2006 at 8:08 pm
Ah. Now didn’t Jesus say that a time would come when false prophets would be popping up all over the place? I’d say that time is now. I’m sure there have always been false prophets but with the advent of broadcasting well, they’ve cast a net over the world.
August 20, 2006 at 10:18 pm
Jesse,
You might be right in claiming that the False Prophet mentioned in the Book of Revelation will be the final pope. But one can’t be adamant about this, especially considering the fact that the “woman” (harlot) of Revelation 17 RIDES the Beast (the Antichrist and his kingdom), and that the Beast hates the woman and destroys her. It’s possible that the final pope will head the “harlot” of Revelation 17, and that the False Prophet will be some other individual.
August 21, 2006 at 5:25 pm
doesn’t feel right to me. should read the article at rediff.com called “only one more pope?”. I think the pope is all the religious power the antichrist will need, especially since he’ll show great signs and wonders himself. and jesus talks negatively about the church of ephesus saying if they don’t change he will take their candlestick out of its place, and they haven’t changed. they don’t do their firstworks, which for any christian church is to teach the word of God. the catholic church started in ephesus.
September 15, 2009 at 1:18 am
soon they will try to have us worship on sunday. I will not ever do that.
August 21, 2006 at 10:28 pm
The [b]Roman[/b] Catholic Church started in Ephesus? Never heard that. What’s your evidence that it started in Ephesus?
August 21, 2006 at 10:35 pm
I also believe many of the false prophets will be priests and cardinals who follow their pope. even now priests meet together and tell everyone Jesus was eaten by dogs and many other things that are polar opposite of what the bible says. begs to question why they say they are christian, but that is the way it is supposed to be, prophecy fulfilled of 2nd Peter, 2:1
December 28, 2011 at 8:40 pm
Been a Catholic for a long time. Dogs eating Jesus? That’s deffinately a new one in the old protestant propaganda bag.
August 21, 2006 at 10:47 pm
According to most scholars, Peter fled and wound up in Ephesus. The Ephesians then martyred Peter. Most scholars believe Peter started what would then become the catholic church.
August 26, 2006 at 4:56 am
i am sorry but a lot are not convinced…and that includes me…..all are mere accusations…there is no truth in what this site says…all are lies…history will proved that… god bless
hrh juan carlos is not an anti-christ………….that’s for sure………..
August 26, 2006 at 6:52 pm
Barbara, you’re definitely correct there will be many false prophets out there and will come in many different forms. Some will be priests. Some will say they are of the elect. Some will be heads of big churches here in America. Many will be convincing and since most people are blind that they cannot see and ears that cannot hear, they will have many followers. Who knows which of these evangelists will do what exactly, only time will tell.
August 27, 2006 at 2:11 am
Hi, I just wanted to state that I know that Prince Felipe is the future Antichrist. If you want to know who the false phrophet is I can’t find the man yet but look in the maitreya garbage. maitreya is suppose to be able to open the seven seals which only Christ can open. Hes also going to unite the cooky world religons. The Pope and the Jesuit General will most likley be destroyed with Rome. I’m not %100 sure but Cardinal tauran might be the next pope. By the way as far as Pat robertson goes I saw a clip of him on the net doing a Satanic hand signal on the 700 club. “maybe hes just a Texas long Horns fan like George Bush though?)
August 27, 2006 at 7:19 pm
Jeff,
And how do you know that Felipe is the (future) Antichrist?
September 2, 2006 at 2:03 am
This will be a little long.
I have always known the Antichrist would be a tall handsome man, because of Satans vanity. The entire world will not whorship and unite around an ugly man. Jack Van Impe is a little nutty but He once gave the scripture on his show that the Antichrist comes out of Spain. I checked this scripture out and it looked acreat to me. ( I did not right it down so I have lost it since then, I emailed Van Impe to see if he could give to me and I never got a responce I will email him again though)
One day my brother and I were looking through all the top Dogs in Europe and everyman was either to old, ugly or just plain nerds. So my brother started looking at the top dogs in Spain
, they are all old gruesome looking men. So it just comes to me one day, I just knew, he was a Prince in Spain. I knew that George Bush would be President and relected the first time I saw he was running for President. I have also known that Bill Frist will be elected in 2008, I have known thats since 2002. Thats why Tom Delay got set up and kicked out becuase he would have been the front runner for President in 08.
So a couple days go by and have a nightmare one night. After I awake my brother comes and tells me to look at this guy he found on the net. Its Felipe the Prince of spain, He just happens to be this 6-4 Tall Handsome man. I found out he was conceived around the time the Jews took control of Juruselam. I took a look at his photos and saw that he seemes to stand out in every picture, even if its not focused on him. he seemed to be plotting something in every photo, like hes up-Hiding to something.
Felipe looks like he could Play James Bond as Well. Dress him up in the Old roman Attire and he fits it perfectly.
Its sounds like he is related to one of the former Roman Emporers. I also see the title he will inherit from his father “king of Jurusalem”. What better title for the man who will stand in the rebuilt Temple of Soloman.
He is also took part in a public protest a awhile back. “man of the people” LOL!!
I am not sure about this yet but the law might be changed in Spain so he will never become King. His older sister might become Queen before he ever becomes King. That would explain why bible says hes a Prince and a King.
Prince Felipe of Asturias , King of Jurulsem.
If you take a look at the Old Roman Empire of Europe. It looks much like a Dragon on a map. Spain happens to be the “mouth” of the Dragon.
What does the Antichrist do? Speaks Great Blasphemy against God.
The rest of the Prince of Europe are a bunch of geeks. Some Women say William is Handsome but he is to Gangly (tall and Boney)to shy and imcompotent. Hes also to imbread.
If you look at the history of Spain they have some of a mix in there blood of almost every Nationalty in the world. Who else would be better then a mix breed for everyone to love? Then the False phorphet could tell the world that hes part of all of you and is hear to help.
The false Phorphet will join all the false world religouns to whorsship this man. Why would a black man follow a pure white man or vice versa? the same goes for Oriental or Arab.
Mongals Mixed with the Arabs, Arab mixed with the black Africans, The Moors who were mix of some of these three went into Spain and mixed with the white Eupropeans and thats why the Spanish have darker skin then the French, Brits , Germans ect. Columbus also broght back Native Americans to Spain and some of them mixed into the popolation.
There was also a statue openly decicated to Satan somewehere in Spain. I beleilve God can still put things in mens hearts and hes the one who told me that he was a Prince in Spain.
Take a look at the people in this world, evil men are easy to Spot , just take a look at there faces and you can see from a look on most mens faces what they are like. Evil Men Faces are filled with Rage, Pride, there faces start to mold because there so evil. Look at Felipes wife she use to look pretty in her younger photos the older she gets the more she looks like a witch. The more you grin and snear the more it molds your faces. It leaves marks in peoples faces how they hold it. Just like if someone wore glasses for years then gets contacs, you can tell they wore glasses because of the marks on the face from wearing them so long. Godly men tend to smile much even even if they are miserable much there life, they have a humble simple look to there face.
If you look at Nancy Grace (court TV) she to looks like a witch the older she gets. Thats because shes snarls so much its molding her face.
Will just have to wait and see until 08 first to see when Frist gets elected President.
One last thing about this Maitreya garbage, the Old roman Empire of the middel East and Africa looks like another type of beast. Syria seems like a head area of this beast. I’m not sure yet but the false phrophet may come out of Sryia. I belive many people get the false Phrophet and the Antichrist mixed up which can cause some confusion at times.
Please excuse my spelling errors, I have back spams and don’t have the energy to correct everything.
September 15, 2009 at 1:25 am
Good job man. You took alot of thought in to this i see. I myself have just come to belive in God. I worship on saturday. This is interesting stuff and sounds like you could be right. I will pray about this for now.God Bless you
September 28, 2011 at 10:14 pm
rubbish ,simple reason
— the Antichrist is “NOT” a person … it’s a system . The Vatican / Jesuits
So everything you have written up there is unfortunate useless unless you are referring to general lowlife SUN WORSHIPING SCUM .
And there are shitloads of them .
God bless and watch —————- WATCH Walter Veith ——————-
June 5, 2013 at 12:37 am
Hi Yannis,
I am a Christian preacher, and I can say for sure that you never read the Bible nor love Jesus our Lord, The King of kings, the Lord of lords. Your heart isn’t clean, and your bad language proves it the Antichrist indeed is a person, and not a system. You don’t have the Holy Spirit in you, but I will pray for you though.
Jeff, you made a very good guess. God bless Jeff, Dominic, and even a nonbeliever like Yannis.
Thanks,
September 2, 2006 at 2:00 pm
So, basically you are saying that God told you that Prince Felipe is the antichrist? Did He actually speak to you or send you a vision?
Some of you seem to think George Bush is not a christian. So he is just a charlatan? And assuming you are correct and Frist becomes president, he is “in” on this conspiracy as well?
September 2, 2006 at 8:07 pm
Jeff,
It’s possible that Prince Felipe is (or will be) the Antichrist, but I still hold to the view that King Juan Carlos will fulfill the prophecies. Either one, however, could do so.
Actually, back in October or so of 1993, I moved to Colorado Springs, Colorado from Elkhart, IN, and happened to be in a Christian bookstore in Colorado Springs one day when I struck up a conversation with a gentleman who was trying to keep an eye on his 5-year old or so son. The gentleman worked for a Christian publisher, marketing or promoting Christian books, but our conversation turned to the “End-Times”, and the identity of the Antichrist. I shared that I thought it was King Juan Carlos, and told the gentleman about the 1992 Summer Olympic Opening (or was it Closing?) Ceremonies held in Barcelona, and how clearly pagan and Satanic they were. The gentleman brought up, for what reason I don’t know, the “fact” that Prince Felipe had not agreed to the ceremonies, and in protest had chosen not to attend, or not to sit with the King. I thought it rather odd, at the time, that the gentleman would offer that bit of information in apparent defense of Prince Felipe, and the prince had not come up beforehand. However, not long ago I came across some Internet site which apparently indicated that Prince Felipe had gone along with the entire thing, or at least had made no fuss about it publicly, and had “harmoniously” attended the Ceremonies, sitting in the company of the King. So, one of the two is lying (or gravely mistaken) – it might be that the gentleman at the bookstore was lying about Prince Felipe in order to divert attention from his being the Antichrist, but I don’t know.
On the other hand, back in November of 1993 I had a “tongue, with interpretation”, in private (all alone, by myself), which consisted first of the interpretation then of the “tongue” (and that was one of only two such experiences with “tongues” that I’ve had in my life, and I’ve been a Christian since October of 1989). The tongue-plus-interpretation indicated that King Juan Carlos is the Antichrist. (I was tapping a picture of King Juan Carlos in which he had just arrived in Jerusalem and was being greeted by Yasser Arafat, and I was convinced by the picture [as the final piece of evidence] that KJC was the Antichrist, and was tapping his picture with my right index finger, saying out loud [to myself], “He’s the one; he’s the one” [meaning, he’s the Antichrist], and at one point as I prepared to say this, I felt a surge of energy begin at my right shoulder, run down my right arm, and end at my right index finger just as I tapped his picture and said “Isah unta” [pronounced, “ee-sah oon-tah”] [rather than “He’s the one”]. It took me a second or so to realize I hadn’t said “He’s the one”, but “Isah unta” instead. I believe that was a “tongue, with interpretation” given by the Holy Spirit (though in reverse “order” from normal, though accomplishing the same effect).
Note, though, that I do not KNOW that the tongue and interpretation were from God. I wish I knew that it was, but can only say that I BELIEVE it was from God. Satan, however, can be crafty and deceptive, so I will wait to see if events, or God, confirms that it was correct.
September 3, 2006 at 1:18 am
Re to Red Dawn:, yes I beleive God told me, I heard “no voice” and received “no vison”. I did however just knew, kind of like when you look at the sky and see its blue, its blue. Remeber when jesus Asked Peter “who do you beleive I am?” Peter replied “Thou art Christ son of the living God” And jesus told him that it was is Father in heaven that revealed it to him.
When I was in 5th Grade 1992-93 I knew a guy named Brad. I told my friend Derrick one day I beleived some day he would be our Highschools quarterback. (I knew he was in sports but I had no idea if he even played QB Before). I dropped out of school in January 1997, but 3 years later in 2000 I was watching my local channel 10/13 broadcast the Football scores. I found out Brad was now the highschool quarterback just like I knew he would be 7 and a half years earlier.
George Bush got his second term, why is he afraid to speak the name of Jesus? Nothing can happen to him if he speaks the Name of Jesus but for some reason he will not. He just keeps saying “the Almighty”. I have bean threatend in the past for speaking about Jesus and those threats did not shut me up. I saw one of Bush”s speaches a few months again and I saw a look of enragement on his face. He looked as well as if he were snarling and growling inside. I can’t judge his heart but the things I see him do tell me he just puts on a show to apeal to a large Christian base. Such as, he could have given Teri Shivo a Presidental Pardon from her Death Sentence and he would not. He never renouced his skull and bones Membership. If he realy acepted Christ he would have given up his
memership in something so evil. I found out freemasons like to talk about God but never realy speak of Jesus.
The whole war in Iraq was to free it up for a revived but new Roman Empire. Take a look at the Roman Empire to its maximum extent and Iraq was part of it.
Look at Felipes coat of arms for the Prince of Asturias. You will see a Golden Fleece, which is a direct mockery to the “lamb of God” Jesus.
And I just wanted to say something to Doug, I am happy to hear you said you are waiting for God to tell you. When you saw that picture of KJC, it might have been God telling you he would give the Antichrist his power. Felipe’s father could be finishing up world events in order for his son to take over some day.
Remember when Methuselah died? There was not enuff rightoes men left in the world for God to spare it, so the flood Started the day after he died. Maybe when Evil KJC dies , his son will have real power and the countdown will begin.
I am happy to see we can agree there both evil though. LOL!!! I am 24 years old and I aceppted Christ I remeber the same day my brother Chris did. My brother Chris is a year older then me, and my mother asked if he wanted to accept jesus at age 4. Which would have been December 1984. I over heard my mother talking to my brother and thought she was talking to me. This is one of my earliest memories of being alive. So I beleive I was still 2 years old when I got Jesus.
Felipe was 13 when I was conceived in 1981. In Israel at 13 your considered to be an adult I beleive. So thats why I beleive God put me in this world. To counter this evil mans precence.
Just like Felipe, I am the 3rd born child. My evil dad said “no more kids” after my brother Chris was born. So my mother was going to get her tubes tide when she found out she was pregnet with me. So my mother has always called me “her little Samuel”, because she felt so much like Hannah.
I have enjoyed this board very much, most other people just want to argue, critazize and attack.
September 3, 2006 at 1:53 am
Hey doug I just looked up isha unta on a online dictionary and one of the words amazes me.
isah in Uk is
The Independent Supervisory Authority for Hunting
It also means something for a universaty in Germany
and “unta” means
United Nations Transitional Authority
This one realy gets me
Isha could also stand for Esau
remeber Jacob was the child of promise not Esau
I almost forgot to Red Dawn , I beleive all these men who are in power are connected someway. You have to be one of the “good old boys” to get power. I use to like Frist but I am starting to think hes evil like most of them.
My own belief was Tom Delay was the front runner for President. I beleive he is trying to be a real Christian but had to deal with a majority of evil men is his own party. Dems and Repubs are both evil. Theres been a few real Christians in both parties but the Democrats lost just about all of theres and the Rebulicans are losing the few they have left fast.
September 4, 2006 at 7:23 am
I think you many of you should seek Jesus first, and stop maligning people with “hand signals” you saw on the Internet. That was more likely arthritis, you dope.
The 700 Club has won many souls for Christ. And Thank God for that.
In any event, the antichrist can’t be revealed while some of you are here. -The rest of you will get to tell the rest of the world that is left thatyou guessed correctly. Good for you!
September 4, 2006 at 7:26 am
Thanks to Adrian for some scholarly information that I appreciate very much.
September 28, 2011 at 10:15 pm
watch walther veith for real information
September 4, 2006 at 10:21 pm
Bob,
“The 700 Club has won many souls for Christ. And Thank God for that.
In any event, the antichrist can’t be revealed while some of you are here. -The rest of you will get to tell the rest of the world that is left that you guessed correctly. Good for you!”
The Bible says nothing at all about the Antichrist not being revealed prior to the Rapture. All it says is that he won’t be revealed AS the Antichrist, in the fullness of his rebellion, until after the Rapture. The passage in I or II Thessalonians clarifies which of the three different “revealings” of the Antichrist is being referred to – namely, the one in which the Antichrist reveals himself to the WORLD as the Antichrist by claiming to be God and seating himself in the Temple. The other two “revealings” of the Antichrist – his confirming of a 7 year peace treaty, and someone calculating his name to 666 – are apparently distinct from the third, and from each other, both in character and in chronology.
But I see you are not afraid to say to someone who identifies himself as a Christian, “you dope”. Good for you! However, I’m afraid your doing so is dangerously close to saying to him, “You fool!”, and I assume you know what Jesus has to say about people who refer to others in that way.
Oh, and Pat Robertson is a charlatan and a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Dig just a little deeper than lazily watching his program, and you might realize this.
September 6, 2006 at 5:15 am
The rapture is only for the elect. The people who God chose before the foundation of this age. There aren’t many of the elect. not every christian is one of the elect. By far most christians aren’t of the elect. It says for the elect’s sake the days are shortened. It says God will gather together his elect from the four winds. Everyone will be here when the tribulation starts. When the elect have finished doing their work, they will be raptured with about 5 months left to leave the rest to make their choice. How many fair weather christians are out there? Just because a person says they are a christian, that doesn’t mean they get to escape. Is a person so deserving that God will let them escape but let the ones He found to be perfect before this age started will have to go through most of it? When those people who expect to be raptured are left here, what will they do? Pat Robertson claimed to have diverted a hurricane. He’s power hungry and therefore not a real christian. He ran for president let’s not forget. He takes old women’s money not to have a religious but a political cause. He also said God caused 9/11 because of our sins. That’s idiotic to claim to know God did that. Falwell is in the same boat. When the PTL scandal broke, I saw Falwell literally drooling at the possibility of the influx of cash he was about to get and did everything he could to draw the former PTL donors to him.
September 6, 2006 at 5:25 am
Oh and Bob, calling someone a dope isn’t very nice. We all sin and I know that, but let’s keep this somewhat civil eh?
September 6, 2006 at 6:18 am
Also had to get to what Jeff said about Satan’s vanity making him to be a tall handsome man. Satan was considered to be God’s most beautiful angel. It’s not his vanity that has anything to do with what his appearance will be here.
September 6, 2006 at 9:27 pm
Jesse what I ment by vanity is , yes Satan was God’s most beautiful angel. But Satan is narcacistic, why would someone like that want to posses an ugly man? Satan thought he was so beutiful that he deserved whorship from man instead of God.
Besides the “World” wants physical beauty to follow. Hitler was an ugly man but he only lead Germany. The false phrophet will most likley be plain looking because he tries to immitate jesus. From a Scripture I read in the bible in the old testament it refers to Jesus that when he came he would not be a tall handsome man.
Its the scripture where it refers to God looking at the heart and not the outer apearance of a man.
If Antichrist is ulgy whos going to want to whorship him or be his buddy?
Look at me for instance, most women I meet tell me I am an attractive man. When I was 40 LBS heavier last year not as many people gave me the looks they do now. Women seem to be giving me big smiles all the time. Men seem to look at me with more “respect” since I lost weight. A man even recently looked me up and down and as if he were judging my out outward apearance to see if I was worthy to hold a door open for. (he was not a homosexual either)
Me, being a christian will hold the door open for anyone regardles of what there apearance is.
Some one whos not a Christians usually doesn’t think this way.
One more thing about papal Pat and the $700 Club. I wrote a letter to there media department months ago and never got a responce.
I have called there prayer lines several times and told I didn’t deserve to be healed of my bones spurs becuase I didn’t beleive.
If you state to them “God hasn’t healed me yet” they replie, “since you ain’t belivin Gods a notta healin”.
I have be repeatedly attacked by there prayerline. Even when they do pray you can tell there not realy praying, its scripted.
heres what a phone call is like
“fatha God just heal this man from the souls of his feet ta the crown of his head”. “jeff are you a member of the 700 Club?, Just send $5 a month if you don’t got nuthin. Do you want me to send you some healin pamplets?
You know how many times they repeated that?
False Preachers will say anything to keep getten
the money. Just like Morus Cerrelo, when I was on his mailing list his ministry sent me letters saying if I wanted a brake through with God, to send him the money and I would get a maricle.
September 6, 2006 at 9:32 pm
Some of you should call the 700 club prayer line and ask why you are not healed and see the responce you get. Tell them your in pain and don’t understand why Gods allowing it. then you’ll see what they say.
September 22, 2006 at 11:17 pm
Well actually I am very sick. Just found out not long ago I have 3 deadly kidney diseases and maybe also an autoimmune disease. I still wouldn’t call that line even if it’s just to see what they say. I think when you know something is wrong, you should stay away from it. Like when Jesus says about false christs to not go where they are. If he wants us to not go where the false christs are, even if it’s only to prove them wrong, then he probably doesn’t want us to have anything to do with false prophets who offer false claims of healing.
September 28, 2011 at 10:21 pm
PAY ATTENTION ,
Eat Frankincense , Myrrh and also drink colloidal Silver . the first 2 very effective for Kidney and intestinal and colloidal silver kills any infection without antibiotics i drink it for a year now on and off as i need it .
it is no coincidence that the 3 presents for Jesus where all the above ( Gold also has positive effect have to research it little more )
Don’t disregard this my friend it may be that it is not coincidence that i read this and post this . They are the most potent medicines in the world !!
October 9, 2006 at 5:25 pm
i don’t think so he is the antichrist.
antichist should be a jew.jews must recognize the antichrist as their messiah.
the messiah should be a jew…
October 11, 2006 at 8:11 pm
No idea where you got that from since it will be the Jews who will be the first along with the elect to identify the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel. The antichrist will come against the house of Israel which is any jewish/christian country. The antichrist and most of the world will try to destroy the christians and the jews and at that time the jews will recognize Jesus was indeed the messiah. The world is against the jews as it has been for a long time. It says in Daniel chapter 7 that the 11th nation to join the revived Roman Empire will be diverse and the leader will be the one to speak great things against the almighty which means that’s where the antichrist will come from. Most people believe as I do that the EU is the revived Roman Empire and the 11th nation to join it was Spain. Madrid is the EU headquarters and when there is any conflict involving Israel, it is Madrid that steps in.
October 14, 2006 at 9:44 pm
The Jews will be looking for a SECULAR “Messiah” – one who will save and protect them MILITARILY. The Jews of Israel today, being by far a mostly secular group, may or may not accept a non-Jew as Messiah, but it is unlikely that it would be of primary significance to them (given their secular-ness). Furthermore, King Juan Carlos likely would promote/claim the “Merovingian Heresy”, by which he would apparently attempt to claim his (false) right to being the JEWISH Messiah. (The “Merovingian Heresy” says that Jesus was just a man, though the rightful heir of King David, and fathered children with Mary Magdalene, and Mary took her children with her to France, and from these [or at least one of these] children sprang the Merovingian kings, from which most of the royalty of Europe [including King Juan Carlos] claim descent. Thus, they claim [or would apparently like to claim, if given the opportunity] lineal descent from King David, through Jesus, and thus would claim [or like to claim] the title of “King of the Jews” and “Messiah”. [Note that King Juan Carlos already lays claim to the title, “King of Jerusalem”, via the Crusades.])
October 21, 2006 at 5:19 pm
OMG!!! FELIPE ONLY HAS A LAW DEGREE FOR SPAIN, JUAN CARLOS HAS INTERNATIONAL LAW AND IS WHY HE WAS THE HONORARY GUEST SPEAKER AT THE BICENTENIAL OF THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT. ALSO HIS SHIP HE SAILED IN THE PRE OLYMPIC GAMES IN MUNICH WAS NAMED THE “DRAGON” AS SO IS HIS KING JUAN CARLOS 1 DRAGON SERIES RACE BOATS. I HAVE TO SCHOOL ALL YOU NUBIES!!!!
October 22, 2006 at 9:45 pm
LOOK AT THE BIOGRAPHIES OF BOTH THE KING AND HIS SON!!
JUAN CARLOS STUDIED CONSTITUTIONAL LAW,INTERNATIONAL LAW,ECONOMICS AND TAXATION
PRINCE FELIPE STUDIED JOURNALISM INSTEAD!!!!
ALSO ABOUT CHANGING LAWS!!!
JUAN CARLOS IN AN INTERVIEW THAT YOU CAN FIND ONLINE SAID THAT HE GOT INTO LAW BECAUSE LAWS ARE MADE BY MEN AND THAT THEY CAN BE CHANGED!!!!!!!!!!
October 24, 2006 at 1:50 pm
Nobody knows for sure who the antichrist will be. My personal feeling is it is Prince Felipe because of his youth as well as the way he looks, not to mention he has even more royalty in him than his own father from his greek mother. As far as schooling us nubies I am of the elect which you are not. You show hostility in what is supposed to be a calm discussion and what is with the “OMG” as in “oh my God”. Isn’t that blasphemy? You aren’t schooling anyone as your lack of patience shows you haven’t learned much of anything.
October 29, 2006 at 5:27 am
RE:adrian mastro
Nowhere does scripture say the Antichrist needs a “law degree”. Royalty and Goverment do not need law degrees to make laws. Did King David need a law degree to make laws? Second the Antichrist must have a Title of King and Prince. From my current knowledge Juan Carlos is has no titles of “Prince”.
October 30, 2006 at 1:46 pm
Well said Jeff. I did point out Felipe had a law degree but one doesn’t need to in order to make laws as there are countless examples within our own government. I’m quite sure Schwarzenegger doesn’t have a law degree but yet he makes laws. In Daniel it does refer to the antichrist both as king and prince so there’s a reason for that.
November 14, 2006 at 10:12 pm
Jesus also is referred to as both king and prince. At one time, King Juan Carlos was a prince, and “prince” in the Bible can refer merely to a person with authority, usually great or royal authority.
However, the Book of Daniel, chapter 8 specifically (I think), seems to indicate that the Antichrist will have Greek blood (will be associated with one of the four kingdoms into which Alexander’s kingdom splintered). If so, then in this regard Prince Felipe, because of his mother’s being Greek royalty, would seem a better “fit” than King Juan Carlos. Either way, though, I doubt there is a great deal of time before the Antichrist is revealed, and even less time before the Rapture.
November 17, 2006 at 4:42 am
before you look for the rapture you need to read Ezekial 13:20 where God is warning false prophets who teach their flock to fly to save their souls.
December 1, 2006 at 10:42 am
Why must people try, and figure these things out?
After all, if you have faith God, then it does’nt matter, becuase God will show you who truly is the false prohpet, and who is the antichrist, when God sees fit.
I would advise the study of philosophy. Not for wisdom, and not for beleif, nor to judge, or to seek, but just to study. When a person has studied enough, along with the bible, there WILL be a vision, but not so lcearly defined as “seeing”, but more of “interpreting”, like a dream with images you can hear, but can’t see; you learn to know what they look like, but you never truly see them with your eyes.
I have seen heaven, and have seen hell, and truly I don’t deserve of the first. But God allowed me to see Heaven, becuase I sot him out, becuase I know that my sin is far greater then my faith, and becuase I am amongst the meek; unable to fend for my own heart against the wickedness of all things, I depend like a infant upon the love of God to carry me to safety, even my my own actions harm myself in the eyes of the lord.
So fellow christians, or Jews, or other beleivers of God, don’t make the mistake of diversion, search for who God is, and not for who Satan is…
October 10, 2014 at 7:32 pm
Daniel says, “Let he who hath wisdom, solve the number of the beast…” That means it is solvable! The antichrist is Felipe of Spain, I sealed my prediction up in July 2000!
December 3, 2006 at 10:43 pm
Jesse,
“before you look for the rapture you need to read Ezekial 13:20 where God is warning false prophets who teach their flock to fly to save their souls.”
What, then, is the “Blessed Hope” mentioned by Paul in the New Testament? What, then, was Jesus referring to when He told CHRISTIANS to “Watch, and pray always that you might be COUNTED WORTHY to ESCAPE all these things”? Would you have admonished Jesus to “read Ezekiel 13:20” before teaching His flock to seek to “escape” some future Tribulation?
December 10, 2006 at 9:04 am
When Jesus was talking of escaping he meant to not be where the judgments are taking place. The list he gave previous to saying “accounted worthy to escape..” were all judgments. Before I referred to Ez. 13:20 I obviously knew of the whole chapter of Luke 21. Ezekial 13:20 does exist does it not? So you have to put things together to arrive to a conclusion. Read all of Ezekial 13 as to how even the righteous are swayed by false teachings. What would be the purpose of a life of a wise christian if it is only to escape by a rapture? Who are the ones who testify in the synagogues of Satan? Is anyone better than they are? They are obviously still here to offer testimony. They aren’t “left” here because of their unbelief in Christ. God wouldn’t trust those who don’t believe before the tribulation to offer testimony in front of the whole world. He’d offer his best. So again I ask, who is better than they are? The ones who are called the “remnant of the election of grace” are on par with every prophet in the Old Testament and every apostle in the New Testament, to be made to live at the end of the age and to do the work they must do. They don’t get to flee from earth when there’s work to be done. So who is worthy to be raptured before the tribulation? What logic would God have to rapture his wisest before things happen? There is a rapture but it takes place 5 months before the end of the age. That’s when the election of grace will be done with the work they had to do and will no longer be needed. The fallen angels will sting the inhabitants of earth with their words and there will be no counter testimony anymore, preying on every human weakness. The inhabitants on earth will then decide who they will follow: will they follow Satan or will they remember the testimony of the election of grace and choose Christ? No one gets to escape the tribulation but by death alone. Why are we even here if we just get to fly away before anything happens? Weigh all the words of God and Christ out to see what it all means.
December 12, 2006 at 3:06 pm
Why does the bible say that it will be like in the days of Noah? In the days of Noah, Noah and his family were “SAFE” in the Ark. God didn’t SLAY Noah in the flood, he spared him.
It comes down to, anywon who truely loves God will be spared. Lukewarm coldblooded people will be left. God is not a masochist, he wants people to be spared. Do you people realy think God wants the people who love him to be tortured, sliced and diced by the Antichrist?
God tells us how to identify him so we can watch out for are enemy. To warn others the slaughter thats coming. Are we just suppose to read are bibles and go to are churches ignoring whats going on?
Some of you seem to be saying that warning people about the Antichrist is “not seeking God”. If I didn’t love and seek God I wouldn’t care what the Antichrist does or who he slaughters. I would just take his MARK, incourage others to take it and go to Hell with him if I did not love Jesus.
December 12, 2006 at 11:07 pm
Jesse,
“When Jesus was talking of escaping he meant to not be where the judgments are taking place.”
No, He doesn’t say that anywhere, and nowhere is that indicated. In fact, Jesus Himself identifies where those “escaping” will be, or be taken: those found “worthy” will “stand before the Son of Man”. Note that “Son of Man” indicates Jesus in His physical form (not “merely” His spiritual, everywhere, “form”). To “stand before the Son of Man” indicates those counted “worthy” will be gathered to ONE place, a place where Jesus will be. That place will either be, at least initially, in the sky (whereupon Jesus and His “worthies” will ascend to Heaven), or Heaven itself, before Jesus seated on His throne beside God the Father.
“The list he gave previous to saying ‘accounted worthy to escape…’ were all judgments.”
Yes, but you overlook the fact that in the case of Christians in this context (those whom Jesus encourages to be counted “worthy” to escape “all these things”), Jesus says that the “escape” would involve “stand[ing] before the Son of Man”. None of the judgments mentioned in the “previous list” could fit this description, for those who might have escaped them.
“Before I referred to Ez. 13:20 I obviously knew of the whole chapter of Luke 21. Ezekial 13:20 does exist does it not?”
No, but Ezekiel 13:20 does. 😉 But that makes no difference, as I have pointed out regarding those who escape “stand[ing] before the Son of Man”.
“So you have to put things together to arrive to a conclusion.”
Ummmm, that’s part of MY point, Jesse. You have failed to “put together” the part of the passage where Jesus says those counted “worthy” to “escape” will “stand before the Son of Man”
“Read all of Ezekial 13 as to how even the righteous are swayed by false teachings.”
That passage would apply just as well to you yourself.
“What would be the purpose of a life of a wise christian if it is only to escape by a rapture?”
That’s a silly question. One could just as well ask, “What would be the purpose of a life of a wise Christian if it is only to die at 15, 25, 50, or 70 years of age?”
“Who are the ones who testify in the synagogues of Satan?”
The 144,000 Jewish Witnesses. The Two Witnesses. The Christians who were NOT counted “worthy” to be taken in the Rapture, but who then “awaken” to what is happening, and draw near to God.
“Is anyone better than they are?”
Some are apparently, according to Jesus Himself, more “WORTHY” for some things. The same principle holds for rewards, Jesse. The Rapture is a REWARD.
“They are obviously still here to offer testimony.”
See my above response.
“They aren’t ‘left’ here because of their unbelief in Christ.”
Right. They are left here because they weren’t WORTHY to be taken in the Rapture. That does NOT mean they aren’t saved, just that they weren’t worthy for that particular REWARD.
“God wouldn’t trust those who don’t believe before the tribulation to offer testimony in front of the whole world.”
See my above responses.
“He’d offer his best.”
God is able to raise up Pauls from Sauls, even after the Rapture, Jesse.
“So again I ask, who is better than they are?”
That’s not the point at all.
“The ones who are called the ‘remnant of the election of grace’ are on par with every prophet in the Old Testament and every apostle in the New Testament, to be made to live at the end of the age and to do the work they must do.”
No. Different callings and ministries, and differing levels of obedience, result in differing rewards. As it has always been.
“They don’t get to flee from earth when there’s work to be done.”
It’s a REWARD, Jesse. Who are you to tell God what rewards He can and cannot give? Besides, what of Enoch? God took him (as a REWARD for Enoch’s close walk with God), yet surely there still could have been much work on Earth Enoch could have accomplished for God’s Kingdom.
“So who is worthy to be raptured before the tribulation?”
Jesus doesn’t say. But I would assume it would be those who have drawn near to God, have separated themselves from sin, and are not “choked” with the cares of this world, the desires for other things, or other sorts of distractions. Especially, those who are walking with God humbly and thankfully, and faithfully.
“What logic would God have to rapture his wisest before things happen?”
Does God depend upon the wisdom of man to accomplish His will? You really limit God, Jesse. You also seem to easily forget the lesson of Saul on the Damascus Road, the fact that there will be 3 1/2 years of Tribulation (or even 7 years) during which new believers can be instructed (by the Holy Spirit, perhaps using resources “left behind” by those “wisest” you keep referring to), and the Biblical testimony itself regarding the 144,000 Jewish witnesses and also the Two Witnesses.
“There is a rapture but it takes place 5 months before the end of the age.”
How do you know its timing so specifically? What’s your Biblical basis, and why wouldn’t your arguments against an earlier Rapture apply equally to a Rapture 5 months prior to the End of the Age?
“That’s when the election of grace will be done with the work they had to do and will no longer be needed.”
Where does it say that in the Bible?
“The fallen angels will sting the inhabitants of earth with their words and there will be no counter testimony anymore, preying on every human weakness.”
Boy, that’s reading a WHOLE LOT into that passage in Revelation that just isn’t there at all, Jesse.
“The inhabitants on earth will then decide who they will follow: will they follow Satan or will they remember the testimony of the election of grace and choose Christ? No one gets to escape the tribulation but by death alone.”
You assert this, but contrary to the very words of Jesus Himself, as I have pointed out above. Keep in mind, Jesse, what “stand[ing] before the Son of Man” means.
“Why are we even here if we just get to fly away before anything happens?”
“Before anything happens”? There is no fundamental difference, Jesse, between 3 1/2 years and 5 months. There is also the fact, which refutes your major argument, that God WILL have witnesses on the Earth during that time: namely, the 144,000 Jewish witnesses, and the Two Witnesses. It does not matter WHEN they are saved, as God is able to prepare them, or to have them suitably prepared, regardless of the amount of time left to them.
“Weigh all the words of God and Christ out to see what it all means.”
Words you yourself would do well to heed.
December 13, 2006 at 11:51 pm
Enoch’s job still isn’t finished. Remember Enoch and Elija (or however you spell his name) were the only to God ever “took”. Remember when the bible says those two will come to witness and be killed? I know its both of them.
The funny thing about it is that Enoch will probably be twice as tall as Elija. I have heard about how big men were before the flood.
I watched some Kent Hovan (drdino) DVDs and he talks about what the world was like before the flood and it makes perfect sence what he is saying.
December 15, 2006 at 8:28 pm
You seem pretty aggravated rebutting me. The greek word for “escape” in Luke 21 is “ekpheugo” which actually literally means “to flee”. “He that endures to the end the same shall be saved” is a key verse because Jesus will come here on earth in the flesh, so yeah, those will be there standing before him. It isn’t until the sounding of the last trump where the mystery of God is revealed. If all of the sudden millions of people are vanished off the earth, wouldn’t the mystery be gone? Wouldn’t that make even the most skeptical think “man this book must be for real”. So why would that happen before the tribulation? The two witnesses die and the 144,000 stay in Israel and are left to pave the way for the return of Jesus. Jeff rightly said that Enoch’s work isn’t done yet because he will most likely be one of the two witnesses (Elijah surely being the other). It may not have been so much of a reward as it is God needing him at a more crucial time because it is written of Enoch that he was a great teacher of God. It doesn’t matter when they are saved but some are chosen before this age started so for them it’s not a matter of choice to be faithful. God told Jeremiah he was chosen before he was in the womb. Romans chapter 8 and 11 deals with this as well. The election of grace in the last generation are here to be witnesses as well as prophets. Matt. 24:31 “And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet and will gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other”. That sounds like when the mystery of God will be revealed, and just as it says in Rev 10: 7. What is written in Rev 9 are the fallen angels, am I right? If so, how will they sting men? They aren’t scorpions. It’s not a physical act. Can’t convince too many people Satan is God when they are physically hurting non-believers. When the witnesses are killed it’s when Satan is kicked down here to earth and the bottomless pit is opened. They will be dead on the streets for three days then they will hear “come up hither” and they will ascend into the clouds as I feel also so will the election of grace. You can get angry if you want to but unless you die, you will be here just the same as I will.
December 27, 2006 at 12:05 pm
[…] La cuenta atrás ya ha empezado. Aunque algunos dicen que han evitado un tsunami y la consecuente guerra nuclear, la llegada del Anticristo es inminente. Y, si hacemos caso a algunas profecías, es posible que lo tengamos entre nosotros. Nunca han faltado candidatos a este curioso cargo, pero pocos como el Rey Juan Carlos I presentan un curriculum más apropiado. […]
December 27, 2006 at 5:01 pm
Couldn’t have said it better myself Trampa 22…. what did you say? Have a happy new year everyone.
December 31, 2006 at 3:28 am
Translated for all
The countdown has already begun. Although some of them say that they have avoided a tsunami and the consistent nuclear war, the arrival of the Antichrist is imminent. And, if we pay attention to some predictions, it is possible that we have it between us. There have never been absent candidates for this curious charge, but few ones as King Juan Carlos I present a more appropriate résumé.
January 1, 2007 at 5:25 am
thanks for the translation
January 11, 2007 at 3:59 pm
I’ve known of this prophecy of the United States concerning Iraq in Isaiah 18 for many years. I knew years ago we weren’t done with Iraq. This prophecy talks about, how I interpret it, the future splitting of Iraq into 3 separate nations. I thought I’d share it with everyone… “Woe to the land shadowing with wings which is beyond the rivers of Ethiopia: That sendeth ambassadors by the sea; even in vessels of bulrushes upon the waters saying, Go ye swift messengers, to a nation scattered and peeled, to a people terrible from their beginning hitherto, to a nation meted out and trodden down upon, whose lands the rivers have spoiled! All ye dwellers of the world and inhabitants of the earth, see ye when he lifteth an ensign upon the mountains and when he bloweth a trumpet, hear ye.” I love prophecy, especially the ones we are able to be witnesses of. With everything so much on the line with the war on terror, why play with troop levels like Rumsfeld did? Have too many if anything. But this is the way it was supposed to be to fulfill the prophecy. Everyone in the US better be on the lookout when the splitting of Iraq happens with the Kurds in the north, Shiite in the south, and Suuni in the middle. If 9/11 wasn’t prophesied from what I could tell, how bad will this woe be? When the ambassadors go I feel that is when it will happen or shortly after.
January 13, 2007 at 6:06 am
I have enjoyed reading all of your posts. Years ago I worked for a man who told me KJC was the antichrist, but I hadn’t really heard his name since. Just recently I began hearing it, and found this site in a google search. You all have some great points. It is so exciting to see prophecy play out on the news every night. We are indeed close to seeing Jesus return!
January 15, 2007 at 11:07 am
Hey are we allowed to give links to pictures? If we are, check out Prince Felipe Snarling at the pope. Maybe hes wants some of that juicy world power the pope has? Add some foam and he would like a mad dog.
January 15, 2007 at 5:55 pm
Re: Jeff # 62: “Snarling?” His look is more of intent concentration to me. Snarling includes baring of teeth; no pearly whites, there! Remember the Pope is Italian of German descent and Prince Felipe is Spanish. Can you say “lanuage barrier?”
January 17, 2007 at 5:38 pm
You can’t take anything from a picture since it freezes just a moment of time where anything could happen. Maybe a bug flew up his nose. Maybe he was saying something and during his enunciation his face made a snarling look. Say the word “you” and take a pic during the “ooo” sound and see how your face looks. Maybe he needed to sneeze. Not mocking you, but you can’t tell anything by a picture.
January 18, 2007 at 2:36 am
sniffer;
You post most stupid comments. You
also post as smellbox person. Why you so stupid and post like fool? You no have sense? sOMETING WRONG WITH YOU BRAIN? I say you go to head doctor to see watsa matta you.
January 19, 2007 at 3:18 am
sniffer:
In my country,boss kill fool what talk such like you. they take away fool that say stupid talkings. Only stupid fool make ass talk like you.You american no make sense.why say stupid talking?
January 22, 2007 at 7:02 am
Rambit are you referring to me or all the posters? Head doctors-pyscatrists are wicked through and through. Pyscatry was started by Sigmund Froid who was a twisted minded pervert.
Not all people, but alot still get very angry at me when I start talking about Felipe. Calling me anything from stupid to a false phrophet. One more thing about Felipe is that he looks an awful lot like Julius Ceaser.
I did want to ask 1 question to the regular posters. IF KJC is the AC then how does he come out of one of the 4 kingdoms of Alexander the Great? As far as I know he has no Greek blood nor was Spain ever controled by the Greeks.
January 22, 2007 at 10:55 pm
Another question to ask is after the antichrist dies and Satan is kicked down here after the war in heaven, will he look like an old man? Satan is going to say “see I told you I was God” three days after the death of the antichrist.
January 24, 2007 at 12:54 am
Jeff;
No,I no refer you.I refer that fool sniffer or smellbox.No refer you.Sorry. You nice.
February 2, 2007 at 3:43 pm
I wanted to ask you regulars if you could fast and pray for me. I have twisted vertbrea throughout my spince, I can’t sleep currently becuase of this. Your spinal nerves control just about everything in your body and I have nerves getting pinched throughout my spine. I also have bone spurs on the back of my skull. They grind into my neck ligaments messing up my muscles and tendons. There is no real support for my spine anymore so the vertbrae shift with ease.
A surgeon agreed to shave them off me after years of searching. But now hes delaying the surgery so I have so suffer for an extended period of time. This pain is taking me to my limit to what I can bare. I am very desperate for relief and need God to act somehow to help me get this releif I need. If the surgeon doesn’t change his mind all together its probably going to take several more months of waiting.
February 2, 2007 at 7:17 pm
I’ll definitely pray for you Jeff. I know what you’re going through. I have 3 deadly kidney diseases but am not being treated for it since our screwed up country doesn’t have healthcare worth a darn. I can’t work because I’m too sick and have a lawyer to fight Social Security tooth and nail so I can have something done. They denied me because they felt I was too young to have the diseases that I do. Well I have them. I love this country and it’s the best in the world but in many ways it’s very screwed up. Hope things get better and hang in there. A lot of us will be tried with hardships so we can be prepared for the future. God will make things right for you because for the things he wants to have done to be done, he’s going to need you to do your job. Hang in there Jeff.
March 21, 2007 at 8:22 pm
My prayers are with you both, Jeff and Jesse, that God would provide you with relief and comfort.
March 21, 2007 at 8:24 pm
Jeff,
“I did want to ask 1 question to the regular posters. IF KJC is the AC then how does he come out of one of the 4 kingdoms of Alexander the Great? As far as I know he has no Greek blood nor was Spain ever controled by the Greeks.”
Perhaps by lineage, though I haven’t thoroughly checked King Juan Carlos’. However, Prince Felipe is the son not only of King Juan Carlos, but also the King’s wife, Queen Sofia. Queen Sofia is the daughter of the King (or former King, depending on if he is still alive, which I doubt) of Greece (if I remember correctly). In any case, she is royalty from Greece, and perhaps this would indicate that Prince Felipe might be a better fit as the Antichrist.
March 23, 2007 at 5:46 am
When are you guys going to wake up and see the light? Get real, the antichrist… the real christ was simply a charasmatic man who’s cult following went the distance and establizhed itself as one of the leading world religeons. Just another dumb cult, like so many others. A pathetic attemp by man to grasp the idea that there is something more than just the off button. God, or a supreme being? Maybe, perhaps but a man/god child.. yeah right, give me a break. Havent we heard it before, half man half divine in so many other religions, myths, etc. As for an antichrist it cant be much more bull than the real christ. Revalations.. heh what was it? It was a coded document for the times guys.. the times then, to speak about Nero and the Roman government viewed as evil naturally by the Christians who were being tortured by them. You know, as a species we will continue to slowly develope as long as we hold to these rediculous ideas. If there is other intelligence in the universe I doubt they will ever really try to talk to us as no matter what we do as long as we hold on to ideas of religion we are primitive. I know this will upset many of you but seriously… an atichrist.. how many times has that been said before only to be proven wrong.. what about Vladimir Putin.. or George Bush or my uncle James or the dog down the street that looks at me funny. I would love to be proven wrong but centuries of history have made that unlikely. Antichrists.. rediculous. In short.. this guy is not the antichrist and man needs to think about saving himself and not waiting for it to happen magically.
March 24, 2007 at 2:20 pm
First of all Cyberpain, in order to act like you’re smarter than us, you need to spell better. Second of all, have you ever read Psalms 22 which was written about a thousand years before Christ, and 900 years before the Romans introduced crucifixion? I understand Revelation just fine. If you have some encoded question about Revelation, lay it on me…. oh by the way Cyberpain, in Revelation 8:11 where it says a star fell from heaven named Wormwood and it poisoned the waters… did you know that “wormwood” in ukrainian is Chernobyl? Some code eh?
March 24, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Thanks Doug for your prayers. The question rings true definitely to the extent that Felipe has more royal blood than his father which I have stated. I think as far as the world kingdoms are concerned, I do think it’s only to give a point of reference to location of how the last world kingdom would get its start. I think the antichrist coming from the eleventh nation of this re-order is all that needs to be said as far as bloodline. Then again your interpretation could be right. I just don’t see the world following an old man is another point, since Satan was God’s most beautiful angel he probably won’t want a wrinkly body.
March 24, 2007 at 3:29 pm
“Wormwood” in Ukrainian is Chernobyl eh? And that means absolute jack right? Chernobyl is the site of a reactor melt down that poisoned the water and the town… not a star. I think that bit of insight would have been more meaningful if the word meant Tunguska right?.. As for trying to sound smarter than you guys I absolutely am not and am also not interested in doing so. You religious nuts are some of the smartest people around to come up with this crap, I mean who else can grasp straws like a Christian. Seriously though, I dont want to offend anyone I just wanted to say that I dont believe in antichrists, or new born kings that are god/man hybrids. God.. I am certain is real in some form or another.. he would have no need for a son IMO though. Free speech is why I said what I said and once again I dont want to offend anyone. It just amazes me the amount of trust people put into old texts simply because they are old and into ideas about religion simply because they have “faith” which by its very definition defies logic. How many of you have witnessed something that leaves no doubt that what you say is all real? Anyone? Either way I dont intend to come in and bash this conversation or thread and I respect everyone’s opinions. I personally have no fear of the end of times, or the antichrist as I am sure the end will come and it may be part mans doing, but no man/god hybrid will have anything to do with it.
March 24, 2007 at 9:46 pm
Cyberpain: I’m new here, but I have been reading several of the sites with great interest. People like you I find very interesting because your statements sound like a challenge. God..I am certain is real in some form or another…what’s logical about that? Why are you certain? Faith defies logic? Sounds like you have some kind of faith if your certain there’s some kind of God…only the God you conjured up has no basis or fact behind it. I am a christian, and I was like you once. I implore you to pick up a Bible and start reading it. But before you do, ask your God to reveal himself to you “if” he’s real. Tell him you don’t believe any of the “crap” you’ve heard about him and you’d like the truth.
You see, our God, the God of the Bible loves people to seek Him. If you’re really this smart, logical person, don’t take our words for it. Find out for yourself. Keep in mind if we’re right and you’re wrong, you have plenty to fear and a hopeless eternity. If you’re right and we’re wrong, we have nothing to fear. All that happens to us is non-existance.
March 24, 2007 at 10:37 pm
Cool! Finally someone with a brain! Cyberpain has got some searching to do and it’s gonna take him some neat places! Just keep an open mind, pal. I agree with you on one point: trying to predict the anti-christ when the Bible has already told you it can’t be done and listening to these “scholars” making lists of candidates is a riot!!! I, too, respect their opinions, but I can’t help but laugh at their futility. We can’t predict the future, we can only be PREPARED for it. “If you fail to prepare, then prepare to fail.”
March 25, 2007 at 12:16 pm
Jesse,
Just as a point of note, I prefer “Douglas”. No offense taken.
March 25, 2007 at 12:21 pm
DJ,
“I agree with you on one point: trying to predict the anti-christ when the Bible has already told you it can’t be done and listening to these ‘scholars’ making lists of candidates is a riot!!!”
First of all, I’ve never claimed to be a “scholar”, and I’ve never made a “list” of Antichrist candidates. Second, the Bible nowhere says or implies that no one will be able to identify the Antichrist before he confirms the 7-year peace Treaty prophesied in Daniel – in fact, if one couldn’t do so BEFOREHAND, then calculating his name to 666 (see Revelation 13:17-18) would be utterly UNNECESSARY, as he would already be clearly identifiable (through his confirming the 7-year Treaty). Therefore, you are gravely mistaken.
March 25, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Douglas, your reply to Jesse on 81. Are you kidding? What a baby. Doug. I thnk we can agree it’s better than asshole.
Leave the DJ person alone. He’s not mistaken. No one is gonna know. Why do you care who it is anyway. You’re so touchy and defensive, it’s probably you.
March 25, 2007 at 1:47 pm
It doesn’t say anywhere that one can’t know who the antichrist is beforehand. As a matter of fact it gives many references as to point him out before he confirms this treaty. What nation he will come from, the number of his name, and what group of nations he will be part of in the beginning stages of the one world government. The only thing it says that no man can know is the day and hour in which Jesus will return. I take it Cyberpain didn’t read Psalms 22. Just because it says a star fell from heaven it doesn’t mean an actual star or meteor fell from heaven. I’ve studied the bible a lot over the years and I know it’s genuine. Psalms 22:16 can give nearly anyone some insight on this. There also is the prediction of the return of the state of Israel which miraculously happened after 2500 years following an attempted genocide. There are many instances but one can’t find out for oneself unless they take that journey. To say someone’s opinion is rediculous (actual spelling ridiculous… just toying with you hehe) is to definitely imply that you have mental superiority over the other. If we knew for sure who the antichrist was, we could do nothing anyway. There is a time when the antichrist dies and that time will be in the midst of the 7 year peace treaty, then three days later Satan in the flesh will be here. What we have here are people who know this is the generation and even are called to this purpose to point out the Wicked One. To say it’s silly to speculate who the antichrist is is to deny what the purpose of the called is. Can you say that God giving them that instinct is silly or ridiculous? The only point where speculation of this kind is hurtful is if someone tried to kill the antichrist, because they wouldn’t be killing him since they aren’t allowed to, but instead kill an innocent man. Since most predict KJC is the antichrist, I can imagine a scenario in which he is assassinated bringing his son to power and blaming us christians for his father’s death. I was the most skeptical person around but in my soul I knew there was God and I knew who he was and the son was Yeshua. It was until I was called to read then made to study to where I really understood all of this. If you believe there is some kind of god and don’t believe in evolution (you can ask two questions to dismiss the theory of evolution: 1. if evolution is real then why are there still cockroaches? 2. if the planet is 4 billion years old, then would there be enough time to evolve to this from an amoeba considering there are over a million species of insect alone?) then all you have to do is open the book to Psalms 22 and then begin your journey. I blame false teaching for many who haven’t any faith because of their serving of manna and not God. Here’s another good piece of information for you Cyber… Adam wasn’t the first one created in this age. On the sixth day God created man to have dominion over the birds, fish, cattle, over every creeping thing and the earth itself. On the seventh day he rested. After that it is written and afterward chronologically it clearly says that there was a mist about the air since God had not caused it to rain because he had no man to till the ground yet. Then he created THE (in the torah, the word “the” appears there but not on the sixth day creation of man) man, Adam. Adam in hebrew means ruddy complected. When you look at the generations listed from Adam to Seth, to Noah and on, it’s plainly written Adam was just the first jew created. Anyone can open their eyes and see one man and one woman didn’t create all these races. And when someone asks if Adam was the first one created, how did Cain go east and take a wife, all you have to do is say, “Adam wasn’t the first one created (for the reasons I said) and that Cain went east into the land of Nod which considering where the garden of Eden probably was, then he would have taken an arab wife of the sixth day creation. The subsequent race would be called the kenites. The kenites would later mix in with the jews and even be given jobs as scribes. “Woe to thee scribes, pharisees, hypocrites!…” God created every race but the jewish race on the sixth day, then Adam after the seventh day of rest. I hope this helps with the bible making more sense now to you and gives you some insight. I pray for you to find your way Cyber.
March 25, 2007 at 6:09 pm
Douglas,
No insult was intended by the “scholar” reference. You are evidently an educated person (scholarly), but in my humble opinion, are putting your talents to poor use. I was poking fun at others on this subject of “who is the anti-christ” who have made less that cogent predictions that even some to you must be rather absurd. But I digress…
The Bible provides a number for the anti-christ’s name. Big deal. With mathematics and statistical analyses, one can determine just about anyone to be the anti-christ, even Barney, the purple dinosaur, as someone playfully pointed out.
The country… OK. I think that there are quite a few people to cull from that sample set, too.
What group of nations of which he will be a part. OK… European Union… Eastern Baltic States… former members of NATO… International Soccer League? Quite a few groups out there, as well.
Replying to your “two questions” concerning the validity of evolution, the cockroach is a simple, hardy organism that is very much unchanged from the beginning; why try to improve on perfection? Second, could we evolve from single-celled organisms to intelligent(?) bi-peds in 5 billions years? I say Yes, because I believe that there is a God that moulded the world. Who’s to say that science and religion cannot live hand in hand and compliment each other? They did until the religious leaders felt threatened by great minds like Coepernicus, Da Vinci, Gallileo… C’mon, is that the best you’ve got?
As you’ve provided an example with your defensive tone, religious folks get nervous when others start asking questions that either 1) they can’t answer, 2) take their spotlight from them, or 3) make them question their own beliefs.
There’s faith, then there’s blindly following everything you’ve been told to a T. Christians are compared to sheep. I may belong to the flock, but I can think for myself when I need to. I ask God directly for guidance and direction. I do not put much stock in Man and his emotional interpretations of the scriptures. I believe in being ready for just about anything. God will provide the rest.
March 25, 2007 at 7:19 pm
The rapture as doctrine is a fairly recent development in Christian thinking. I’ve studied it, but I’m not sure I buy it as it is usually presented.
I’m leaning toward the next/last pope as THE anti-christ,, although I think the spirit of anti-christ has been unleashed in the world for awhile.
Evolution, smevolution. There are somethings in this life that we will not fully understand until the next life. I don’t worry about that trivial stuff. That’s God’s business and I trust He can handle it.
Its a fun intellectual exercise to debate these things, but ultimately we must understand that since the time of at least the ancient Athenians, man has debated the same pieces of the “big picture” over and over and has still not reached a conclusion. How vain of us to think that this generation has any more answers than those of the previous millinea!
Carry on!
March 26, 2007 at 3:27 pm
You missed my point completely as to evolution and the cockroach DJ. If evolution is real, then we came from the cockroach. Beings just can’t skip the entire insect species to raptors or reptiles or rodents. Since there are over a million species of insect alone, some new ones being discovered everyday, then there simply isn’t enough time for us to have evolved from a single celled organism. The EU is the real power in Europe which started as a lowly trade organization that has come out with it’s own monetary system. NATO has been pretty impotent with the threat of communism subsiding drastically over the last 15 years. Mrs. DJ is correct about the rapture doctrine as to how it is taught, since anytime the rapture is sort of referenced it says it’s for the elect. “For the elect’s sake the days shall be shortened..”, “God will gather his elect from the four winds…” And according to Roman’s 11:4-6 there are less than 7000 of the election of grace. As far as answers in this generation go, this is the generation that will see all things come to pass. We’re at a point where the snapping of a twig can cause a global war like none other. With the problems with Iran, Russia, China (all of whom were predicted to be aligned) it can happen anytime. The next war Israel fights will be the one that will cause the peace treaty the antichrist will confirm I firmly believe. Israel’s defense minister said the next time Hezbollah acts Israel will not back down until the job is finished. The bible does predict that Damascus will become a ruinous heap and being that all these arms to Hezbollah are coming from Iran and Syria and coming only through Syria it shows how close we are to that point. I also in a previous post remarked about the prophecy of the US written in Isaiah 18 in dealing with Iraq. “Woe to the land shadowing with wings which is beyond the rivers of Ethiopia… All ye dwellers of the world and inhabitants of the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign upon the mountains and bloweth a trumpet, hear he.” That is clearly the United States. “Go ye swift messengers to a nation scattered and peeled, to a people terrible from their beginning hitherto, to a nation meted out and trodden down upon, whose land the rivers have spoiled!” That is Babylon which is today’s Iraq. As I wrote before that I knew a long time ago we weren’t done in Iraq because of this prophecy and that at some point as a final act of desperation (sad to say) we will split Iraq in 3 separate states which we are already talking about doing. This is the generation.
March 26, 2007 at 5:06 pm
Re: Jesse # 86: No, I did not miss the point. It is obvious that you did not pay ANY attention in your science classes, particularly Biology. The various organisms are arranged in the Kingdoms, Phyla, Classes, Orders, Families, Gena, and Species for reasons. Like traits, physical characteristics, digestive methods, habitat, etc, group the fauna and flora in God’s great world. We humans split from our insect brethren(?) back at “Class.” To say we evolved from insects is ignorant, as in lack of knowledge.
As to your predictions of what’s going on between Israel, Syria, Iran, I couldn’t agree more! I, too, believe that we are nearing the denounement in Middle-east history. I simply prefer to watch the scenario unfold with open eyes, rather than be concerned with dead (or undead) pop icons, political squabbling over trivial matters, and who will be booted off the island or American Idol. And to attempt to name the anti-christ… more waste of time.
If the Bible, and other words of faith in print or otherwise, is correct, then were are in essence “reading the script as the play progresses.” What I’d like to know is: Can we rewrite the script? Is it “set in stone” with no deviations possible? Can we decide to put down our arms and embrace each other in peace, instead of rushing down the path to destruction?
If we are not able to change our fate, then that puts a great deal of stock behind the concept of predestination, doesn’t it? Why not just get drunk and wait for the other shoe to drop? Because we are hopeful people. We hope that God is indeed watching out for us and will not let anything terrible befall us.
Faith. Hope. Love. Life can be so simple, yet so complicated, eh?
March 27, 2007 at 3:44 pm
It is set in stone, it’s only man’s ego that believes he can change what is to happen. The events are set in stone but what isn’t set in stone is what can an individual do for oneself. Only a few have a predestination as is written in Romans chapter 8. The reason we are here in this age is because our creation failed at faith when Satan tried to convince us all he was God. His jealousy and pride caused him to hate our creation, as well as many other angels. A third of the angels followed him. Because he did what he did, God sentenced Satan to death along with the angels that followed him. In essence God chose us over his most beautiful angel because he didn’t destroy our souls. Instead God gave our creation another chance and ended the last age so he can make a new one. He could have pronounced judgment on the 7000 (which he did because they already proved their faith as was written) and those who bowed the knee to Satan (some most likely realized their mistake and repented), but if God was to do that, then maybe he would have had to destroy most of the souls he created. In that sense being human is a gift and that’s why we should praise him the way he asks us to do. He’s going to destroy a third of his angels on our behalf. At the end of this age Satan will again try to prove to our creation that he is God. As it says in Ecclesiastes 1:9 “there is no new thing under the sun”. We aren’t new and Satan’s tactics aren’t new.
It is good to see biblical prophecy unfold and I do see them with open eyes as to how individuals react to them. Knowing prophecy and knowing key marking points helps one to expect what most do not expect. For instance the prophecy of the US in Isaiah 18, it says “woe” to us. Considering 9/11 wasn’t predicted in the bible, the magnitude of this prediction must be very big. This is a predestined event. What we as individuals do before it and after it is up to us, but the events will happen as it says they will. In this age, God wants all of those who bowed their knee to Satan to repent before the end of this age. That’s why you shouldn’t just let things fly and say “well this is predestined”. An individual’s choice as to who he/she follow is what this age is all about. As this age makes it hard for our creation to make the right choice with God’s laws conflicting with human instincts and Satan’s keen awareness of our weaknesses and his intelligence and charisma, the next age will make it easier for those to make the right choice because God sincerely wants all of us to make the right choice.
As far as biology is concerned I did pay attention in biology class and splitting is indeed evolving isn’t it? If one species splits from another it evolved. What no scientist has ANY idea of is why. The reason is because it isn’t real. Insects didn’t just have a meeting and say “ok, we’re gonna turn into this while you stay here”. There isn’t any explanation as to maybe environment which logic would dictate as to possibly why that might have happened because insects of all kinds are all over the planet.
God created everything and he did so in mind to have those who would rather trust their own thinking power because of human ego instead of trusting God’s word. That’s why it says time and time again to humble yourself before God. You can have good thinking power and trust God. Intellectuals only believe in what they see. That’s fine. But is love visible? Love definitely exists. As it is written, God is love.
March 27, 2007 at 9:44 pm
Evolution is a lie. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever for Evolution (common descent, common ancestry, macroevolution). The fossil record disproves Evolution, as does the code nature of DNA (random mutations HARM any code – they do not improve the code [and, proposing natural selection has selected all the complexity of life is like claiming one can create a finely tuned, miniature watch with a sledgehammer – it just can’t be done]).
March 27, 2007 at 10:24 pm
Oh, C’mon, Douglas! Evidence of evolution is all around us! Bugs that look like plants and plants that look like bugs to survive and propagate. Polar bears adapted hollow fur to allow them to live in the Arctic cold. Africans that developed extra melanin in their skin to keep from burning up in the intense sun. There are many examples, but you do not wish to acknowledge them. Are you one of those folks that consider science and technology as evil? I bet you would have been one of the first ones in line with a torch to burn Galilleo at the stake for heresy. ; )
As for your comments on the fossil record, those are some of the most absurd statements I’ve heard in quite a while. Yes, natural selection has nudged the development of various species in our world. Are you sure that God’s hand wasn’t doing the “adjusting?”
March 28, 2007 at 4:18 pm
How do you know that polar bears weren’t just given hollow fur or that africans weren’t given extra melanin? Which species decided to develop kidneys, lungs, and a heart? What in the natural order of things said “well we are going to need kidneys to excrete waste”? While I have no problem in believing in evolution to a much smaller degree, there must be something to have created the complexity that is life. When these fossils are found that evolutionists say are our ancestors have DNA tests done on them show that they are not related to us in anyway. Dismayed evolutionists order retests time and time again, but time and time again the tests show they aren’t related to us genetically. You said Douglas’ opinion on fossil records were some of the most absurd you’ve heard in a long time but you agreed with at least part of it, which would minimalize the absurdity a tad bit, wouldn’t it? We shouldn’t say that someone’s opinion is absurd or anything like that. Let’s keep comments like that for those who actually deserve it when they prove they have no idea what they are talking about. I think we can all agree we have at least a pretty good idea of what we’re talking about can’t we? I know the Galileo thing was a joke but let’s keep in mind that many catholic heresies were based upon absolutely nothing. Nothing that was written in the bible suggested that the sun revolved around the earth. Evolutionists want to get rid of any teaching of a god or an intelligent designer. That’s fine but they forget that evolution is just a theory, and the theory was brought up by Darwin who actually didn’t believe it himself. There are many things the bible talks about that the layperson has no idea that it did. Ezekial saw a UFO, Elijah was taken up by a whirlwind into heaven, Enoch never died for God took him, there will be a war in heaven, and the people of Israel had a cloud of fire in the sky follow them through their journey in the wilderness. If more people knew about things like this, scientists would give the bible a second look.
March 28, 2007 at 11:26 pm
Re: Jesse # 91: The (obviously missed) point I was attempting to make is that each doctrine, science AND religion, can BOTH learn a lot from each other.
I am a balanced (well, maybe not mentally LOL!) scientist AND a God fearing Christian. My Biblical learnings have answered scientific questions and my scientific knowledge supports the former.
As for the DNA not being “the missing link” that has eluded us for so long, it DOES answer some questions about the development of hominids in general.
Bottom line: There are many things that cannot be explained by science OR religion. for me, that’s where faith comes in.
Please do not lump all scientists in the “heading-straight-to-Hell” category. Some are extremist in their views as some religious folks are. Does that make either side correct? No. That kind of attitude brings to mind the quote “Judge not, lest ye be judged.”
Now… hold onto your scriptures because I’m gonna pop one into left field on you. You mention the event of Ezekial’s UFO sighting. OK, let’s take it a step further and go back to the Book of Genesis. What if Adam and Eve were the results of extra-terrestrial manipulation of existing hominids? Could that be “the missing link?” i.e. Could God be “ET?”
There are tons of stories throughout the world recounting such encounters. Coincidence? Who knows. What have I been smoking? Not a thing. Just one more theory to consider.
March 29, 2007 at 12:38 am
DJ, I don’t believe in evolution because Christ’s ancestory is written out in the Bible and I don’t see anywhere in Mary’s line that there’s an ape. God is quite clear on how he created us. Adam from dust and Eve from his rib. In Genesis 3:14, God confronted the serpent after he had tricked Eve into eating the forbidden fruit. …thou art cursed above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and DUST shalt thou eat all the days of thy life…….did you ever consider that maybe the dust the serpent will eat is US? Adam came from dust….dust shalt thou eat? Satan is gnawing at mankind daily. He doesn’t care what you believe, as long as it’s the WRONG thing. All these theories that you ponder, evolution, ET, it’s ridiculous. It takes you away from doing what’s really important……sharing the message and mission of Christ. If God would’ve created us from apes, or amebas, or if he flew in from outer space, don’t you think he would’ve told us in his WORD?
March 29, 2007 at 2:47 am
Re: Jilly # 93: Who were the intended readers of the Bible? Simple folks like shepherds, tailors, etc. Of course simple terms and common words were used. Science and technology were unheard of and if witnessed would likely be considered witchcraft or of the devil. Sound familiar?
I’m not trying to lead anyone down the wrong path or “serve them a plate of dust.”
If one is so insecure in their beliefs that they can’t think for themselves, then I pity him/her. Everyone of us is capable of reading the Bible on our own and, I’m sure, have taken different meanings from the Word. You, for instance, are the first person I’ve heard to make the jump that hence we came from dust and God sentenced the serpent to eat dust, thus we are (or will be) doomed to be consumed by Satan. Hmmm… no wiggle room, there. Does that mean that the Faithful are doomed to be consumed, too?
Pondering is ridiculous? It’s called thinking. It’s been going on in caves, synagogues, churches, etc for CENTURIES! Unfortunately it is squashed from time to time by insecure zealots that fear questions. If we weren’t supposed to think, we’d still be sitting in trees picking lice off of each other.
And I thoroughly enjoy sharing the message and mission of Christ. It just depends on who I am talking to in regards to the level of their beliefs. With a fresh convert I would sit and share my knowledge of the Bible with that person. A person “in the middle of their faith-based journey” might enjoy some lively debate on what various scriptures author’s intended with their messages. Others yet might being open minded to saying, “Yeah! What if…!”
“…don’t you think (H)e would’ve told us in (H)is WORD?” Good point. Why? (WARNING! Debate content) Perhaps He knows us all too well and told us what He thought we need to know to get by. You know, that faith-thingie is supposed to do the rest. Now, if God were an ET and came to Earth and was viewed by common folk of that time, what do you think would might be their natural reaction? “Monsters! Demons! Run for the hills!” Instead, we have a booming, disembodied voice, a burning bush, visions in dreams, and visitations by Angels; something COMMON folks might be able to wrap their minds around. Personally, I’m ready for Jesus to either descend from Heaven from a cloud or step out of a bright, shiney flying disc. Imagine how many folks would have a mental meltdown after discovering all that they held dear to all their lives wasn’t right? Now THERE’S A debate!
Yes, Satan is indeed gnawing at us daily. And one of his main tools, in my humble opinion, is intolerance. Love the sinner, hate the sin. I will interact with anyone freely until they shut their minds. Don’t get me wrong, I do not support gay marriage, drug use, sexual permissiveness, etc. Those that live their lives that way, it’s between themselves and God. That is their GOD GIVEN choice. But I will not condone or champion their lifestyle.
I have only one thing that I truely hate in life and that is extremism. It doesn’t matter if it’s music, food, religion, or vodka martinis. It goes back to that bit about tolerance. If one cannot accept that there are other ways to interpret something, then that person needs to step back, take a deep breath, and try to look at from the other viewpoint. That said, I do not and cannot see the good in closed mindedness of religious discussions.
I will listen to your views if you listen to mine. If you think my “ponderings” are wacky, fine, but don’t point fingers and say I’m not right. For all we know, some obscure tribe in the Amazon might be the only ones on Earth that got the worship thing correct. Wouldn’t that be a hoot!?
C’mon! Lighten up! Be firm in your beliefs, but be open to “What if…?”
March 29, 2007 at 10:26 am
DJ, I’m by no means an extremist. I’m a simple person. You seem to be very argumentative anytime anyone doesn’t agree with you or see the world the way you do. I gave the analogy between the serpent and the dust, and the fact that man was created from dust to illustrate the point that Eve, by the coersion of the serpent, made the decision to disobey God. Man was created from dust, the serpent feeds on it. In God’s judgement of satan and Eve, the serpent had suffer the consequences of it’s actions. Eve doesn’t get off the hook. She’s guilty, too, therefore mankind suffers. We have plenty of “wiggle room” because God sent his Son to justify our dilemma if we recognize who He is. I wasn’t pointing a finger at you and I don’t think you’re wacky. I think you analyze the crap out of everything so much that you dismiss the simple truths. Then you try to make others feel like you’re the only one that thinks and has a brain. You like to debate, but you want to win it so badly that you belittle. Being open to “what if” can be dangerous and can leave a door open to unbiblical thoughts, unscriptual thoughts, AND distractions that make you question the validity of the Bible. Scientists and scholars, people who’s EGO is so wrapped up in their intelligence…they’re the worst.
Lighten up? Why don’t you?
March 29, 2007 at 4:29 pm
I have a question for you. God knows everything, right? Well, how come he didn’t stop me from walking on that land mine? DJ,you told me life is what you make it. My life isn’t what I made it. I wanted to be a gym teacher. I was great at sports in High School. Got all kinds of awards. Can’t be a gym teacher without legs. I do coach ocassionally. I was going to take college courses, but, I had several unexpected surgeries form infections. It’s been a treat. When I found out my wife had a fling while I was gone and got pregnant, I hated her and was going to get a divorce. I wanted that bitch gone. Then I stepped on that land mine. Was sent to a recovery point, and when I was well enough, sent to Germany. She showed up with the kid. I didn’t even speak to her for months. Told her I hated her and to take her little bastard away. To make a long story short, we ended up fixing this mess. I never stopped loving her. I don’t like to say it, but it’s the truth. I loved that girl my whole life and what she did hurt me more than losing my legs. But I was an asshole back then. Wanted to go to Nam, drank, smoked the funny stuff, wasn’t the best husband. We forgave each other, and her kid became my son. And it’s been good. So maybe, God let that happen because if it hadn’t, I would’ve dumped her like a hot potatoe. She’s a good woman. Made a mistake, but she stayed beside me all these years. I couldn’t have made it without her.
What do you think? Does God let stuff like that happen to keep you where he wants you to stay?
March 29, 2007 at 6:27 pm
OK, it appears that each subject “thread” on this site has a certain tone that folks wish to follow. My thoughts and ideas are not welcome here, so I will bow out. I’ll pop in (silently) from time to time and follow along with what the others normally post, as I enjoy the commentaries and bits of religious insights I pick up from all the individuals.
Instead of y’all fending off unwanted opinions, I stick to my pondering. I would take up knitting, instead, but we have a cat who would likely make a mess of the yarn and the needles remind me of chop sticks. Mmmm… Lo Mein, anyone?
March 29, 2007 at 9:17 pm
I didn’t lump you and all scientists and say you’re going to hell. It isn’t my job to say who goes or doesn’t go to hell. Hell is just temporary anyway until the Book of Life is opened. Those God finds unfaithful will cease to exist, not burn in fire. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Jesus says also that hell is up there in his story of Lazarus and the rich man. That Lazarus was poor and sat on the floor at the table of the rich man hoping for scraps like a dog, but he was faithful. Lazarus was rich and was only concerned about his money and things of this world instead of matters of faith. After they died Lazarus was in the bosom of God while the rich man was separated by a gulf from Lazarus but was able to see and speak with him. I can tell you are a person of faith and there are many scientists who have faith. Many of them have faith because of their education since they see things that can’t be explained by science, so that gives scientists with a unique point of view.
My point there really about evolution is of fact, that not one of those fossils are genetically related to us as numerous DNA tests show. Here’s a pretty good question though for you DJ, if evolution is real and man evolved from whatever we evolved from, which is the most advanced race?
Sorry to hear what happened Rex but I’m inspired by your writing. When I was 10 years old I prayed inexplicably on who I was going to marry. That night I had a dream where I saw her and heard her name. When I woke up from that dream I repeated the name I called her in my dream. Later that day at school I kept thinking of two things: about this woman God said I was going to marry and how I couldn’t wait til the next day since it was my favorite holiday…Thanksgiving. Several years ago I saw this girl and I heard God’s voice say “she’s the most beautiful thing you’ve ever seen. She’ll be your wife.” It was the same girl in my dream and she has the same name. On a hunch I checked out what day I made my prayer, come to find out it was the day after my future wife was born. Wisdom has taught me that the reason why I even prayed that was God wanted me to. What 10 year old boy prays on who he was going to marry? God’s will will be done.
March 29, 2007 at 9:28 pm
Also DJ, to get to your point about God creating Adam and Eve (don’t forget that the bible said Adam was created AFTER the sixth day creation), I have no problems with something to that affect but it does say God formed Adam from the dust of the earth, and so he created those on the sixth day also from the dust of the earth. That’s why we are found with all these elements inside us from birth. It does say God told the angels that he will make man in “our image”. While our DNA isn’t the same, for we are fragile creatures and angels are not, we look like them. God is the greatest scientist of them all.
March 30, 2007 at 4:13 pm
DJ, don’t tell yourself you’re leaving because your opinions aren’t welcome. You do make others seem inferior to your thought ability when they have a differing opinion. I have a 178 iq… not to brag. What I have concluded that’s so great about having such a high iq is it’s pretty good for just about nothing. I can’t outthink common sense or God, so I don’t even try to. If my iq is good for anything, it’s good for seeing people who think they’re smarter than everyone else and certainly think they’re smarter than what they really are and realizing they aren’t very smart at all. Not lumping you into that category. That’s for people like Bill Maher and a lot of these celebs who think they’re smarter than all one billion christians on this earth.
As for Jilly, the serpent wasn’t a snake at all. As is written in Revelation 20:2 the serpent is Satan himself. The crawling around on his belly and eating dust has an allegorical meaning.
March 30, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Jesse, I KNOW the serpent was SATAN. He used the SERPENT and GOD cursed it.
Honestly, you super smart people have to be talked to like kids. And Mr. 178, God uses all kinds of symbols and analogies to tell us things. The concept that the serpent was crawling on his belly COULD be that SATAN is a low life and he does everything in his power to destroy the DUST or US.
DJ, you don’t have to run and hide and then come back and silently snoop. How old are you, anyway? I read that other site where your buddy Rex said I was Chilly. War vet or not, he should realize that just because he’s had some bad things happen to him doesn’t give him the right to say the nasty, rotten remarks that he does. I’ll tell you what, I’LL go run and hide, and YOU and MR. 178, and your buddy REX can solve all the world’s problems by yourselves because you all have attitudes and answers.
March 30, 2007 at 5:21 pm
Satan didn’t use the serpent, Satan was the serpent. I don’t know what Rex has said on other websites since this is the only one I post on, but you calling me Mr 178 is very immature. I made it clear that I felt it was really good for nothing. Only reason I brought it up was to make a point that I can’t outthink God or common sense while those who I know aren’t as smart as me think they are able to. You’re the one who gets all defensive when you feel your intelligence is questioned, which I didn’t do. How would you like it if I called you Ms. Sub 178? Calling me Mr 178 is very childish, which you accused DJ of being. Work on your own faults before throwing others supposed faults in their faces.
March 30, 2007 at 7:09 pm
Sorry Jesse. That was rude. I would love to be a 178.
Sorry DJ. You’re a very smart man and it was wrong of me to be so defensive.
I shared that analogy about the snake/serpent because it was brought up in a discussion a group of us were having one evening. I thought it was a neat little tidbit, and I thought you would think so, too. I guess I was way off.
Not to make excuses, but I have a lot going on in my life right now.
Both of you, please accept my apology and continue with your discussions.
March 30, 2007 at 8:38 pm
Jesse,
“As for Jilly, the serpent wasn’t a snake at all. As is written in Revelation 20:2 the serpent is Satan himself. The crawling around on his belly and eating dust has an allegorical meaning.”
No, just as God’s cursing the ground for Adam’s sake (because of his sin) was literal and real, even so all the other curses God made at that time were literal and real. Furthermore, prior to Adam and Eve’s sin, God describes the serpent as a member of the “beasts of the field” (note the use of the word, “other”, in the context of the passage which describes the serpent as “more cunning” than the other beasts). This of course does not preclude God using that LITERAL event to portray something symbolic, such as Satan and Satan’s character.
Oh, and what type of IQ test was it on which you scored 178? Was it one with a standard deviation of 15? Of 16? Of 24? Was it on official, administered, test, or was it an online test? (Just curious, because I myself have scored quite well on various IQ, and IQ-type, tests.)
March 30, 2007 at 8:39 pm
“an”, not “on”
March 30, 2007 at 8:45 pm
DJ,
No, you are wrong. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever for Evolution, and the fossil record itself testifies against Evolution. Your examples show nothing at all regarding whether or not Evolution is true: tell me how you can discern whether or not some bugs looking like some plants, and some plants looking like some bugs, is the result of an Evolutionary process, or if it was DESIGNED that way. What you have done is ASSUME your theory to be true, then force the evidence to fit your theory, then proclaim the evidence proves your theory. And that’s just not right.
And that was quite the gracious and noble-minded assessment of me you made, assuming I consider science to be evil, and assuming I’d like to persecute scientists whose theories disagree with my interpretation of the Bible. But it’s completely wrong.
March 30, 2007 at 8:48 pm
For Post #104, “something symbolic” should read “something in a symbolic way”.
March 30, 2007 at 9:30 pm
Hey Jilly, chill.
I say/type things without thinking sometimes.
Didn’t mean to put you in knots.
If your snake story bombed it’s probably because nobody knew what you were talking about. If a snake/serpent started talking to me, I’d know for sure I smoked too much weed in my younger days.
DJ and the other genious’s arn’t losing sleep because you told them off. They just like to brainstorm and see who wins. Relax, it’s a game.
March 30, 2007 at 9:32 pm
OH yeah, Douglas. (See, I didn’t say Doug)
I’m not the sharpest tack in the box, so don’t edit my posts. I know I make all kinds of sentence/grammatical errors. I’m too old for you high-q-ers to fix me.
March 30, 2007 at 10:22 pm
Rex,
I can’t even edit MY posts. I’m just a poster here, not the owner or webmaster or anything.
March 30, 2007 at 11:29 pm
All,
I don’t consider my exit as “hiding” or even a retreat. I look at it as more of a polite withdrawal. My “What ifs” inspired more “WHAT?” than the type of discussion that I’d hoped. And just for the record, I’ll be 50 this Oct.
Re: Jesse # 100: It was never my intention to make anyone feel inferior. When I encounter opposition to my opinions, I see it as a challenge to ask why or why not? If I come across as too uppity, that’s not the tone I intend. As I told Rex or somone on one of these threads, I am a bit of an instigator and enjoy it when things get stirred up. I apologize if I stirred too vigorously the past weeks. As for I.Q.s,I don’t judge my intelligence by a number. I gauge it by how many times I can answer others’ questions. I like to sit and watch “Jeopardy” ocasionally; it lets me know how smart/ignorant I am. Someone said it best with “Once we stop learning, we stop growing.” If it hasn’t been said by someone famous in history, I’ve always liked my saying of “In this world we are students and teachers.”
Re: Jilly # 103: No offense taken. I’ve taken worse barbs in person, so a “stranger’s ire on the internet” is of little harm.
Re: Douglas # 106: Yes, a theory is just a concept until PROVEN, then it is a FACT. I do not claim Evolution is a fact, I still regard it as a theory, but one that has got a lot of weight behind it, in my spiritual and scientific opinion. Thus, I must respectfully ask to “agree to disagree” on the subject of Evolution. You’re quite convinced it is nonsense and I am of the other side of the fence. Can we at least wave civily to each other once in a while? And my playful jab at “being first in line with a torch” was exactly that, playful. If an innocent comment like that hurt you, then you might want to strap on a little more spiritual armor. Uh-oh! Another playful comment! I’m DOOMED!!!
Re: Rex/Douglas #s 109/110: You CAN edit your posts. Do it BEFORE you hit the “Submit Comment” button below. I try to, but still miss capital letters, misspellings, etc. It also gives me a chance to look over things one last time to edit for tone, intent, or content. But, as you’ve seen, even some of the simplist comments can rub someone the wrong way because of a bad day, headache, one drink too many… (hic!)
March 31, 2007 at 1:34 am
I don’t remember what kind of deviation it was. A girl I was set up with thought it would be fun for me to go to the Cook County Library in Chicago where they do that regularly I guess. She didn’t think it was fun as in “this is fun”, she thought it was going to be fun as in “I wonder how much smarter I am than my blind date is” fun. She didn’t enjoy the rest of the date.
Douglas, the serpent was Satan as it says in Revelation 20:2… “Satan, called the Devil, that old serpent…” referring to what was written in Genesis. God told the serpent he would put enmity between his seed and the woman’s seed. Did he mean enmity between snakes and people? That doesn’t make sense. There is a mystery to be revealed with much thought as to who Satan’s seed indeed was.
As far as DJ is concerned, no problem. IQ is not a big deal to me either, which I thought I made pretty clear, twice. Maybe I shouldn’t have brought it up at all, but I was making a valid point. Anyone who knows me knows I’m not egotistical at all. I watch Jeopardy once in a while too. What I concluded is those people have great memories. It’s the decision making the contestants do that let you know if they actually have a brain. I still learn things everyday. I don’t want to let my mind turn into paste only capable of playing PS3 (which I do love by the way…you all gotta get one). With my trusty King James Bible I have a Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance to the bible which has every word written in the King James, it shows everytime that word shows up, the surrounding text, and has a number to the right. If the word’s number is from the Old Testament, the type is in regular print and you look that up in the Hebrew dictionary in the back which has what the original hebrew word was before the translation, the pronunciation, and the hebrew spelling. If the word’s number is from the New Testament the number is italicized and it refers to the greek dictionary that’s after the hebrew dictionary where it also gives the original greek word from the original manuscripts before translation and etc… Lots of mistranslations in the King James but must say those new translations of the bible suck. Check it out. It’s a worthwhile investment.
Jilly, I accept your apology. I also have things going on with my life. I have chronic renal diseases in advanced stages, but I try to treat everyone respectfully. It’s too easy to let life cause me to swing haymakers at anyone around me and I don’t do anything the easy way. Patience counts for a lot and helps everyone but that definitely takes work on the personal front.
March 31, 2007 at 2:36 pm
Jesse,
“Douglas, the serpent was Satan as it says in Revelation 20:2… ‘Satan, called the Devil, that old serpent…’ referring to what was written in Genesis. God told the serpent he would put enmity between his seed and the woman’s seed. Did he mean enmity between snakes and people? That doesn’t make sense.”
Yes, it does, in a way. Almost all people have a natural revulsion to snakes, something they seemingly do not have to any other animals.
“There is a mystery to be revealed with much thought as to who Satan’s seed indeed was.”
The woman’s “seed” is an obvious reference to Christ, and most likely the reference to the “Serpent’s seed” would be to the Antichrist. As I said before, there is nothing which would prohibit, or be out of character for, God from using a literal event/relationship/scenario to symbolize something “deeper” or future.
March 31, 2007 at 2:38 pm
But, Jesse, what on what type of IQ test did you score 178? I’m honestly curious, as the type of test makes quite a bit of difference (a score of 160, say, on one test might be equivalent to a score of, say, 135 on another).
March 31, 2007 at 2:39 pm
“what on what” should read “on what”
March 31, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Jesse,
“With my trusty King James Bible I have a Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance to the bible which has every word written in the King James,….Check it out. It’s a worthwhile investment.”
I’ve got one, too, which I use along with my New King James Version Bible. When I need, I refer to my KJV. I also have a parallel Bible, the Septuagint, the New Testament in Hebrew, an Interlinear Hebrew/Greek/English Bible, a phrase concordance, and “Star Trek Memories” by William Shatner. Except for the latter, they look really nice on the top shelf of one of my bookcases.
March 31, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Douglas. From your point of view, and from your knowledge of the scriptures, are you in agreement with me?
I felt it made sense that the relationship between the serpent (being the devil) and the dust(being mankind).
The devil has been observing us since the beginning of time and he knows how we think, what we will probably do in most situations, and what our reactions are to just about anything. That’s why God tells us to put on His whole armor. Because he’s sneaky, and cunning, and wise.
DJ wants people to consider other thoughts and theories. Well, Darwin had a theory…look what it did to our culture and our educational system. Something unproven, unscriptural is now considered fact. Hitler called himself a christian. His ideas and theories about the Jews resulted in the annilation of millions of innocent people. Thoughts, theories, etc. when not checked by scripture, can be dangerous.
March 31, 2007 at 6:40 pm
hehe gotcha Douglas… that recommendation was for all. the apocrypha definitely isn’t for the new learner
March 31, 2007 at 6:45 pm
don’t remember what kind of iq test it was. this was like 13 years ago, but I do know it was a legitimate one.
March 31, 2007 at 8:13 pm
Re: Jilly # 117: The THEORY (not fact) of Evolution DID NOT cause the moral decay of western civilization BY ITSELF. Yes, I will admit (don’t faint!) that it was a contributing factor, but not the only reason.
Add in Madeline Murray O’Hare, the ACLU, the rampant drug problem since the 60’s, and the “instant gratification” mind-set of our society. WE allowed the atheists to take God out of the classrooms when we did not fill ranks and send her packing. WE are to blame for allowing the ACLU to continue to erode family values with every lawsuit they win against conservative views. WE allow the country to be carried to Hell in a handbasket by not standing up and supporting our law enforcement officials and taking back our neighborhoods from drug dealing gangs. WE are slipping in teaching OUR OWN CHILDREN what they need to know to get by in life. Instead of showing them the pride of being rewarded by our hard work and saving up for things we REALLY need, we get on-line or on TV to purchase anything our hearts desire for just $19.95 plus $4.95 for shipping and handling.
Now, take those four factors, add in that WE have little or no say in the curriculum of what the public schools teach our children, because WE allowed the federal government (and their infinite wisdom) to dictate what the schools will teach.
The best we can do is to take our kids out of the liberal agendized public schools and place them in private learning institutions and continue to teach them the Path to Jesus. I couldn’t afford private schools, but did my best to set my daughter on the right path. She’s doing OK. That passage, “Train them up when they are young and they will not deviate from it.” It works!
Jilly, it’s too easy to pick one villain in this “fight” for survival. To single out Evolution as the ONLY cause of our moral downfall is like saying the entrance of the Japanese into the auto business ruined the U.S. economy. Hold on! Think about the comparison for just a moment… Evolution was just ONE factor interjected into our SOCIETY that had monumental repercussions just as the Japanese auto manufacturing had reverberations across the scope of the U.S. economy (auto, steel, sales, etc) as a whole.
There is a “big picture,” Jilly. Evolution is just a part of it. If you wish to claim it as the main cause of our problems, fine. I’ll “wave to you from the other side of the fence.”
March 31, 2007 at 10:04 pm
Man oh man oh man……I guess when I try to make a point I better take a COUPLE hourS to cover all my bases and explain every little detail of my thinking or you swing into gear. WHERE DID I SAY EVOLUTION IS THE MAIN CAUSE OR OUR PROBLEMS?????? I was MERELY GIVING YOU EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE WHO HAD “THOUGHTS AND THEORIES” THAT WERE EMBRACED BY SOCIETIES. You’re supposed to be so smart. Why is what I said so difficult for you understand? How did you come up with all the other stuff and then have the nerve to say that’s how I think? READ the post, don’t read into the post! You make far to many assumptions over ONE PARAGRAPH!
If you think I’m THAT single minded and that’s the impression you have of me, fine. Trust me. I’m not an extremist, which you implied in an earlier post, and I’m not an over the top conservative christian, or narrow minded. I’m not isolated into only way of thinking and I’M NOT AN IDIOT!
You and I would obviously have to be face to face to have any real discussion, that way I could stop you from rambling on with your assinine assumptions. You take one comment and explode it into meaning something entirely different than intended.
I’ll be more than happy to wave to you from the other side of the fence. I apologized to you once, but I have to say, you’re not only smug, but you annoy the crap out of me.
March 31, 2007 at 11:28 pm
Jilly, with all due respect… Thbppp!
You stated “…Darwin had a theory…look what it did to our culture and our educational system. Something unproven, unscriptural is now considered fact.” That sounds like you intended it to mean Evolution was fairly harmful.
I merely expanded on your point and posed that more is at play than one foible of humanity. I made those statements to see if anyone else out there felt they shared the blame for society’s ills and were willing to cut the PC rhetoric and put some of the blame where it belongs – in the laps of Godless, liberal minded idiots.
Or was THAT annoying, too.
April 1, 2007 at 12:36 am
DJ, Your post 120 starts out as a reply to ME. The 2nd to the LAST paragraph in the SAME POST you again ADDRESS ME as picking out ONE VILLAIN in this FIGHT. The last paragraph of the SAME POST reads: There is a “big picture”, Jilly. Evolution is just a part of it. If you wish to claim it as the main cause of our problems, fine. Then in #122 you say you merely expanded on my point and you made those statements to see if anyone else out there…etc. You weren’t generalizing ANYTHING. You were being the scientist again. Annoying. I take that back. You’re not annoying. You’re full of shit.
April 1, 2007 at 3:27 am
What? Anyone else can choose a part of your posts and make comments on them except me? What’s wrong with expanding on your points? Are they patented or registered? What’s wrong with another perspective on things? It appears you have problems with analytical thinking.
You accuse me of running and hiding, being childish, annoying, and finally you resort to insults. “Sticks and stones may hurt my… Ow! Ouch! Quit it or I’m tellin’! Mommeeeeee!!!” ; )
If you want me to continue to interact with the folks on this thread I will, if you’d rather that I not, I won’t. Either way I don’t care. Your call…
April 1, 2007 at 3:43 am
If I want you to interact with the folks on this thread?…..what are you?…a puppet? I don’t control this thread OR you. Do whatever you want.
Or maybe you should ask your Mommy first.
April 1, 2007 at 1:50 pm
As the kids say nowdays, “Whatever…”
April 1, 2007 at 5:19 pm
DJ is supposed to be so smart? Did HE make that claim? I haven’t read all 126 posts in depth but that doesn’t sound like DJ. He is generally pretty humble and self-depricating.
Jilly, you are arguing semantics.
“DJ, Your post 120 starts out as a reply to ME. The 2nd to the LAST paragraph in the SAME POST you again ADDRESS ME as picking out ONE VILLAIN in this FIGHT.”
As they say in some neigborhoods in our great land, “Niggah’ Pleeze”
April 2, 2007 at 1:45 am
Mrs DJ, you’re as self absorbed as your husband.
I read some of the other things you’ve written and I don’t know which of you has the bigger ego.
One thing is for sure. Mr. DJ needs to “grow some” as he puts it and start looking around. The more I think about it, I think he’s the way he is because he’s with you. Blah!!!!
April 2, 2007 at 5:34 am
My Skank-0-Meter hasn’t gone off like this in awhile. It usually only registers for the likes of Tay-RAY-zuh the Ketchup Queen with an occasional nudge from Rosie O’Queero.
April 2, 2007 at 5:59 am
Douglas, post 106. There is a famous case of some moths over in England who had all been white that turned black after several generations in connection with some kind of coal plant or something started spouting out pollution.
Then there are my grandmothers and their size 4 and 4.5 shoes. My daughter wears a 9. In 4 generations the women in my line have turned into Bigfoot. I feel like I have seen evolution in my own lifetime. My grandmothers were all about 5 feet tall. My mom was 5’4″. I’m 5′ 5.5″ and my daughter is 5’8″. The Egyptian mummies I’ve seen were way shorter than 5′, and that includes the men.
I don’t get my panties in a pinch about evolution because I am a fan of intelligent design. It explains everything that I need to know. I think God has us on a “need to know” basis. As a military wife, I’ve learned to deal with that status.
I have a very nice framed poster of the first page of Genesis that is a copy of an old illuminated manuscript. I bought it at the Hofburg. It shows what God made on each of the 7 days. I think we will find that the evolutionary chain follows the account of Genesis’ order of creation…just throw in a dinosaur or two with the reptiles.
April 2, 2007 at 6:34 am
Wow, this threat went all “reality show” faster than Aretha Franklin emptying a bucket from KFC. This will be my last post. This went from a discussion of ideas and interpretations to Surreal Life minus the celebrities. I wish you all good luck and hope those of you who need some decorum find it.
April 2, 2007 at 9:51 am
Too bad your husband doesn’t have a Skank-O-Meter.
As long as your evolving maybe he’ll get lucky and you can go back to being the woman.
You to lose the “look how great I am” syndrome. You’re just a big mouth.
April 2, 2007 at 11:59 am
Jesse, DJ, Mrs. DJ, no need for Jesse to sign off. I’ll do that.
Seems things got out of hand. It’s no way for people (including myself) to behave.
I could probably get along with DJ. His wife said in a post on another site that women don’t like her, but men love her. Mrs. DJ, you might want to look at yourself and think about why you put off females. From my calculation, you’re 55 years old and not in the best of shape. You seem to think you’re attractive and a man slayer. Big boobs only go so far, so I don’t think men are tripping over themselves to get to you. Let’s face it honey, you’re no Spring chicken. YOU might think so and if you do, you’re more delusional than it appears. I have lots of female AND male friends. I don’t put myself above anyone. You’ve probably deluded yourself into thinking that women don’t like you because you’re jealous of you. Get real.
DJ, again I apologize for losing my patience with you. Your posts, although I may not agree with them, are interesting and you have a good mind. You come across as caring.
You do need to have a discussion with your wife, maybe teach her some diplomacy. I don’t mean to insult HER or You, but her arrogance is a real turn off. I have trouble with women who take advantage of their husbands by laying around and letting them do all the household chores. In fact, if that were my case, I certainly wouldn’t tell anybody. Whether you enjoy the roll or not, your description of her made her sound spoiled and lazy.
April 2, 2007 at 1:10 pm
Diplomacy is just feckless pcism. Don’t you think so? Look at 3 decades of it with Iran, or 55 years of it with North Korea. Look what it got us with our good pals, the French.
I’m only moderately great. I do quite a bit around here. DJ does quite a bit around here. We are a team and a compliment to each other. Both of us are capable of doing it all, only he hates to dust and I do not paint a pretty picture with a weed eater. I hate to pay bills, but when he is gone, I get it done.
Women don’t hate me. They just don’t understand that I’d rather talk about politics than diaper rash and recipes.
Not being a Spring Chicken is SOOOOO liberating. Instead of being a ” young whippersnapper” in my opinions, I’m now a “seasoned older lady”.
The Skank-0-Meter originally belonged to DJ. He began to develop the technology back when he was married to the First Mrs. Davis and perfected it during his two marriages to The Beast From the East.
I’m not a man-slayer, but I have a secret that I share with women who are truly looking for love. For goodness sake, Smile. Compliment them, even if you have to look for things to compliment. Build their egos and build them up. Tell them they CAN. When they DO, tell them they did good. In other words, make them feel good about themselves and gently push them to become more than they are. Suddenly they turn around and wonder why they are so happy and so successful. Then they “get it”.
Before I learned what it was, I didn’t take credit for it. But the truth is, I have 3 X husbands. Two of them will tell you in a heartbeat how stupid they were to let me get away. One I don’t hear from.
But you are correct that men don’t trip over themselves to get to me. That is because I don’t solicit them. I only flirt with them a little and make them have a slightly brighter day.
One reason I don’t get on as well with women is that I naturally don’t trust them. This is a learned behavior. I teach school. One day last year 2 new boys came in my class on the same day in mid-term. They were awful. They were big old boys towering over my desk being defiant. I was physically afraid, but I tried not to show it. I went to the counselor, closed her door and asked her where the two thugs had come from and what she knew about them.
She ran to my principal to complain that I had called them “thugs” instead of “new students”. I told him I stood by my assessment. If she didn’t like what I said, she needed to come to me or tell me on the spot. So now I have zero respect for her and don’t want to get to know her or be her friend. I already see what she is made of. I still treat her with professional courtesy, but I wouldn’t pour out my coffee cup on her if her hair was on fire.
Once DJ found a broken necklace in a car parking lot. It was a diamond heart with a chain attached. He had it fixed for me. A lady I work with told me she used to have one that she lost. I told her how I got mine. Of course we lived somewhere she’s never been when DJ found it. So she teases me and swears it is her necklace. One day she was again chiding me in her good humoured way about it in front of other women. I said, ” Linda, I just don’t know”. I scratched my cheek with my “bird finger” to chide her back. One of the other women present ran to the boss to complain about my crude humour.
And that is why I don’t do women. Why do grown women still act like they are in 7th grade? That is an age old question.
DJ and I are both always right, even if we disagree. Here is the classic. When we first moved back to Texas, one day it was time to go vote. I told him we had to go to a particular place to vote. He swore it was somewhere else. We were both right. In many places in Texas, you have to vote in local elections in one locale and in State elections at another. He was going to prove I was wrong. When we got to the first location, we discovered we were both right. We voted there and then went to the other place and voted again. That kind of thing has happened to us on other occasions since.
The truly good news in that is that we trust each other not to be stupid. Since we are each only moderately great, neither of us is consumed by our greatness. He gets on to me for “putting him on a pedestal”, but because I do that, he has become greater than he thought he ever would be. When I met him, there is no way he would ever have thought of writing long treatises online. Now he expresses himself with confidence. Everyone needs a personal cheering section. So excuse US for validating each other and building a happy life with each other. I had all but given up on this kind of happiness.
April 2, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Mrs. DJ, believe it or not I AM a christian and I don’t like sparring with you. I think my assesment of you was all wrong.
I’m not a fan of women, either. Most of them are snakes. But, we’re taught to hate each other.
I am intimidated by forceful women. I like to speak my mind, too, but I’m soft spoken. I try not to swear and I don’t use sign language.
You and DJ sound like a good match. I’m sorry if I made you feel the need to defend yourself. My husband and I share the workload as well. He’s done dishes lots of times, and I’ve mowed the grass. It’s not a big deal. My impression of you came about when your husband stated somewhere that you use the remote and he’s in the kitchen. My first thought was, wow, she’s lazy.
Let’s stop this now. I had no right to come to a conclusion about you. We all say we’re christians and God doesn’t love me any more than he loves you. It’s Easter!
God Bless you and DJ. Have a wonderful Easter.
I apologize if I’ve hurt either of you. You’re both very smart and my brother and sister in Christ.
Forgive me.
April 2, 2007 at 2:18 pm
I’m curious if anyone here has read The Light and the Glory, or, From Sea to Shining Sea by Gary Marshall, or any books by Francis Shaeffer, or The Closing of the American Mind by Alan Bloom. (The last one was on the best seller list forever in the early 90s) Bloom gets to the problems with pop culture at a depth O’Reilly can only dream about. The others were theologians but Bloom was a true philosopher.
Adrian? Where are all these toll roads in Texas? The only one I know of is in the Houston area, but then again, I wasn’t born here.
I have to agree with James F. about the study of philosophy. Knowing how we got to where we are in Western Thought is a prime key in knowing where we are going. I took up the study in the 90s and got up to the 17th century before I got side tracked. I had to stop to teach myself German and when I was ready to go back to it, I had lost my books. I gathered that mankind lost his humility in the late Middle Ages and that we’ve been going downhill since.
Jesse, even if you don’t think Falwell is among the elect, don’t discount the notion that because of him and men like him, some of the elect have been called.
When God said he was going to make man in OUR image, I have never thought of “OUR” as being God’s and the Angels’ images. I have always believed it was the image of the Trinity. No wonder the Muslims think of us as polytheists. A lot of Christians can’t sort through the Trinity.
Jilly, going back to your post 93, I totally get what you are saying. But that last part about “wouldn’t God have told us in his word” is a premise where I would say, “No, he would not.”
The beauty of the Bible is that it is a work written for all men in all times. The simple herdsmen who wrote it would not understand ET or evolution or any of that. They did understand that following dietary laws kept them from illness.
Its like the little kid who was supposed to recite the 23rd Psalm in front of the congregation only he could not remember it. He said, ” The Lord is my shepherd and that’s all I need to know.”
So whether you approach the Bible from the standpoint of Jesus Loves Me, this I know, or from the standpoint of Steven Hawkings, there is something there for each of us to ponder at whatever place in life we find ourselves.
Jilly, I did like that dust eating image. That was excellent.
DJ, on many occasions God told the folks that they could choose righteousness and change their fate. Still, He already knew what they would choose. And that is predestination.
Now DJ, concerning post 97, don’t you dare try to turn Nappy into lo mein. You are a good cook, but we are not going there. If you try that, the fur will most certainly fly! @;-)
April 2, 2007 at 4:23 pm
Jilly, it really dawned on DJ when he was in college and I was teaching school. He got home before me. He started cooking supper. I got home, looked around and grabbed the lawn mower. One of his guy friends came over to see him and was in total shock at our role reversal. DJ spent a lot of time in the kitchen with his mom. I spent a lot of time with my dad in his shop. At least I can find the right wrench!
And please don’t be intimidated by forceful women or you might scare yourself. Truce accepted.
April 2, 2007 at 8:48 pm
Do you think I’m forceful?
I like to consider myself passionate instead of forceful. Sounds a little more feminine, don’t you think? 🙂
April 2, 2007 at 9:35 pm
Jilly @B-)
Five tips for a woman….
1. It is important that a man helps you around the house and has a job.
2. It is important that a man makes you laugh.
3. It is important to find a man you can count on and doesn’t lie to you.
4. It is important that a man loves you and spoils you.
5. It is important that these four men don’t know each other.
April 4, 2007 at 11:30 pm
Mrs. DJ,
“Douglas, post 106. There is a famous case of some moths over in England who had all been white that turned black after several generations in connection with some kind of coal plant or something started spouting out pollution.”
Yes. In fact, it’s so famous I’m quite familiar with it. So famous, in fact, that others have noted that the pictures of those moths perched on the side of trees are staged – the photographer PINNED some moths on some trees in order to portray the theory. That is, those pictures themselves aren’t evidence for the behavior of those moths – they are, instead, evidence of twisting the evidence by individuals who have a theory they want to promote.
Furthermore, even granting that the theory regarding those moths is correct (dark-colored moths had a selective advantage over light-colored moths, mostly due to a darkening environment, the darkening caused by pollution), all that would indicate is that species have adaptive capabilities WITHIN their own kinds. Exactly like “Darwin’s Finches” from the Galapagos Islands – different sized beaks, but all still FINCHES. Same thing with the moths – all moths, just with different shades. Come to think of it, even humans come in different shades – or are those with dark skin evolving into something completely different? Or maybe the whites and Asians are the “new and improved” version of humanity? Or, maybe, God has granted His creatures the ability to adapt within a given form. Do you know anything about topology, Mrs. DJ? It would help if you did.
April 5, 2007 at 2:05 am
Douglas, WAY TO GO.
You really know your stuff.
April 5, 2007 at 2:57 am
Re: Douglas # 140: That’s what evolution is all about. The adaptation of a SPECIES to its environment. Moths HAVE adapted in England to the soot from pollution and it is NOT staged. I attended a prestigious college in America and the resident Entomologist showed me numerous, non-biased points of evidence that I was able to independently verify myself. And, Yes, HUMAN BEINGS have adapted to their environment as well, i.e. Africans developing more melanin in their skin to keep from burning up in the intense sun of the African environs. No, “humans” are not evolving into something different, it’s called ADAPTATION. Whites and Asians are not the “new and improved” version of humanity. “Whites,” for better or worse, are the result of the melting pot of numerous cultures. Asians MAY be “better” because they have held onto family values and see the benefit of the group over the self. You are bringing culturing traits into a discussion where they don’t really belong. How you can say that evolution, or as Mrs DJ put it, “Intelligent Design,” has no place in our explanation of the world, is a bit perplexing to me.
Evolution is not only the outcome of how physical stimuli affect the various species in the world, but in OUR case (humanity), how religious, societal, and moral “norms” are affecting us. We are evolving in a general sense. Some of us are becoming more liberal, some more conservative. Some are stagnating and will do nothing until they are directly affected by some external stimuli.
“Topography?” For someone that that appears to hold firm to religious tenents, that seems like quite a jump in the scientific direction. Topography is just a radical version of evolution, if you look at the “nuts and bolts” both of the theories. Oh, my! I said the “T” word! ; )
As I said before, you are firmly entrenched in your beliefs and I in mine. We must agree to disagree. (Wave)
April 5, 2007 at 12:45 pm
See what I mean? DJ understands cleos. It’s so simple but people miss it. Mix it with nolicles and it’s perfect.
Don’t wave, DJ. You know the proper sign. If Douglas would meditate on the aborni he would get it, also. We need to lesson our priviledge this way.
April 5, 2007 at 6:34 pm
Hey Kylal: WTF are you talking about?
April 7, 2007 at 1:44 pm
Regarding DJ #142:
“That’s what evolution is all about. The adaptation of a SPECIES to its environment.”
Not exactly. Even the stoutest, most fundamentalist, of Creationists (and I suppose I could be counted amongst this group) would agree that “evolution” in this sense occurs all the time. The great difference, the great argument, is whether or not such adaptation is sufficient to CREATE new genetic information, to CREATE new kinds and new biological forms. Creationists say “No”; Evolutionists say “Yes”. It’s the difference between microevolution and macroevolution. (And don’t try to argue that only Creationists see a distinction between the two, because I’ve seen Evolutionists in the scientific literature use the terms, though they try to argue that microevolution, over long enough periods, can result in macroevolution.)
“Moths HAVE adapted in England to the soot from pollution and it is NOT staged.”
I didn’t say that didn’t. What I did say is that the PHOTOGRAPHS were staged. That is, from the PHOTOGRAPHS the only conclusion we can validly draw is that the PHOTOGRAPHERS believed that moths adapted to the soot from pollution in England.
“I attended a prestigious college in America and the resident Entomologist showed me numerous, non-biased points of evidence that I was able to independently verify myself.”
What college, and what entomologist, and what evidence?
“And, yes, HUMAN BEINGS have adapted to their environment as well, i.e. Africans developing more melanin in their skin to keep from burning up in the intense sun of the African environs.”
I wouldn’t disagree. But you are not discerning the difference between creatures, and humans, having BUILT-IN adaptability, and RM&NS being capable of GENERATING NEW GENETIC INFORMATION. (Forgive the “all-caps” portions – I’d use italics, or bold, but I don’t think this forum has that capability. Basically, I’m not yelling, just highlighting.)
“No, ‘humans’ are not evolving into something different, it’s called ADAPTATION.”
We are in complete agreement on this, then. Except I’d point out that the genetic information necessary for those “adaptations” is already contained within the human genome, as is the case with all animal kinds and their “adaptations”.
“Whites and Asians are not the ‘new and improved’ version of humanity.”
Well, phooey then.
“‘Whites,’ for better or worse, are the result of the melting pot of numerous cultures.”
I think you might mean “Americans”. There are “whites” which are rather “unmelted”, I think.
“Asians MAY be ‘better’ because they have held onto family values and see the benefit of the group over the self.”
I was speaking primarily of physical and mental traits and abilities, not behavior or culture. And I was joking.
“You are bringing culturing traits into a discussion where they don’t really belong.”
See my above response.
“How you can say that evolution, or as Mrs DJ put it, ‘Intelligent Design,’ has no place in our explanation of the world, is a bit perplexing to me.”
But I DIDN’T say that. Perhaps we should begin avoiding the unclear term, “evolution”, and begin using the more precise terms, “microevolution” and “macroevolution”, because there is an important distinction between the two, and it is this distinction which is at the crux of our difference, and apparently is causing some confusion.
“Evolution is not only the outcome of how physical stimuli affect the various species in the world, but in OUR case (humanity), how religious, societal, and moral ‘norms’ are affecting us. We are evolving in a general sense.”
Now you are stretching the meaning of “evolution” to make it merely mean “change”. And that leads to all sorts of communication problems and confusion. If one jumps back and forth between various different definitions of “evolution”, it becomes hard to maintain a consistent argument and coherent discussion.
“Some of us are becoming more liberal, some more conservative. Some are stagnating and will do nothing until they are directly affected by some external stimuli.”
And some of us are becoming older. Does that mean we are therefore “evolving” into a greater age?
“‘Topography?'”
No, “topoLOGY”. A branch of mathematics that deals with the analysis of geometrical shapes including 3-dimensional (3-D) objects, and other multi-dimensional (n-D) objects.
“For someone that that appears to hold firm to religious tenents, that seems like quite a jump in the scientific direction.”
You act as though one cannot or generally does not “hold firm to religious tenets”, while at the same time being “scientific” or knowledgable about science. In fact, though, “topology” is not a “science” – rather, it is a field of mathematics, which itself is more of an intellectual discipline than a “science”. (Mathematics has a stronger foundation than any “science”, yet it is not subject to “repeatable experiments”. Any given mathematical HYPOTHESIS, if unproved, is subject to possibly being falsified, though.)
I have a Bachelor of Science degree in Applied Mathematics, by the way (I took all the mathematics courses for a “regular” Mathematics degree, and then some more in order to receive the “Applied Mathematics” degree instead), and am sort of currently (I’ve taken a year off) in the midst of pursuing a Master of Science in Applied Mathematics and Computer Science degree. And, I’ve taken one course in “Metric Space Topology”, long ago and in the summer (meaning, I don’t remember much of the details).
“Topography is just a radical version of evolution, if you look at the ‘nuts and bolts’ [of] both of the theories.”
Um, no. Neither”topography” nor even “topology”. What is it you think I meant by “topology” (or, in your misreading, “topography”)?
“Oh, my! I said the ‘T’ word! ; )”
I admire your courage. 🙂
“As I said before, you are firmly entrenched in your beliefs and I in mine. We must agree to disagree. (Wave)”
Hey, when one finds the truth, there’s no need to change one’s mind. (Smile)
April 7, 2007 at 7:46 pm
Kevin,
Regarding Post#141:
“Douglas, WAY TO GO.
You really know your stuff.”
Thanks (assuming you aren’t being sarcastic). Do I know you? Are you an accountant? Or maybe a systems analyst/programmer?
April 8, 2007 at 3:02 am
kylal:
REPORT IMMEDIATLY TO ZOG! YOU HAVE DIVULGED
TOO MUCH REGARDING CLEOS AND THE FIRST PROTOCOL OF XZONTOS!
YOU JEAPORDIZE THE EXISTENCE OF INTERSTELLAR STATION Z34 ,FIRST WING COMMAND.
FOOL! DJ IS AN IMPOSTER. HE IS ZORPAQ OF QUOGUE FIRST GRAND INQUISITOR OF THE PORTA EMPIRE.
April 8, 2007 at 3:10 am
Douglas;
AND I HAVE A REVALATION FOR YOU,
EARTHLING:
SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!
April 8, 2007 at 3:11 am
Molog says”FOOL! DJ IS AN IMPOSTER. HE IS ZORPAQ OF QUOGUE FIRST GRAND INQUISITOR OF THE PORTA EMPIRE.”
ACK. He sure fooled me! Thanks for pointing this out to me. Further investigation is forthcoming. Now where is my tinfoil hat?
April 8, 2007 at 3:22 am
DO NOT BE CUTE WITH US ,MRS.DJ
YOUR REAL IDENTITY IS ALSO KNOWN TO US!
BOLAQ ,QUEEN OF ZIRCONIA ,GRAND DAME DELUXE
April 8, 2007 at 3:44 am
Kevin:
Save yourself! Head W by NW back to the staging area.
There is no time to lose.
DJ is relaying your coordinates as we speak!
April 8, 2007 at 3:49 am
Aw Mommy,
Do I have to go to bed now?
I’m playing with my friends.
April 8, 2007 at 11:19 am
Moloq,
Don’t you have anything better to do than interrupt an interesting, if unusual, discussion, and reveal yourself to be an adolescent, at least in heart?
April 8, 2007 at 11:20 am
Kevin,
You still there/here?
April 8, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Douglas, yes I’m still here. I’ve been busy with Easter weekend.
Regarding your post #146, I was not being sarcastic in my post #141. I think you & DJ are very smart men and I enjoy how the two of you “debate”. I admire you because I’m a new Christian, (just accepted Christ Thursday) and you defend Creation and the faith with brilliance. You’re the only one that can “out smart” DJ so far because he DOES give a convincing argument until I read your replies. I think he’s met his match and I like him very much, I just think your are right.
I’m complimented that you think I could be systems’analyst/programmer, accountant, etc. I’m none of those things. I’m a factory worker with only a high school education. I never had the opportunity to go on to college. I’ve made a lot of bad choices and I’m stuck with the consequences. I have a wife and 2 kids and our marriage was pretty rocky. My fault. I drank too much and played too much. She was going to leave me and then someone invited her to a little church down the road from us about 6 months ago. She started going regularly and everything seemed to change between us. We got married at 18 and we’ve married 10 years. She turned into a different woman and very rarely raises her voice. The kids are happier. The house is great to come home to. I don’t think in my heart I ever stopped loving her, it just seems like I fell in love with her all over again. I promised her I’d go to church with her this Easter, but there was a service on Thursday so I went. I felt bad for everything I ever did wrong and when they asked people to come forward, I went. She was crying. I feel different about life and her and the marriage. I want to do the right things.
Didn’t mean to tell you my life sorry, but I like reading this and it’s helped me to study the Bible. I’m not good at that, either, but my wife is helping me. She’s great.
Have a good Easter. Keep posting. You’re a genius.
April 8, 2007 at 3:31 pm
Kevin,
No problem. Glad you enjoy the discussion here, and find my posts helpful. If you like science, or the Creation/Evolution debate, you might like the following sites devoted to defending Christianity from [false] science:
“Institute for Creation Research” ( icr.org )
“Answers in Genesis” ( answersingenesis.org ) .
I might not agree with absolutely everything they have to say, but I have yet to find anything of theirs with which I disagree (particularly ICR, since I am more familiar with that organization and website than I am with AiG).
And it’s interesting that both you and I were saved around the age of 27-28, and were factory workers at the time, neither (at the time) having a college degree. I was saved in October of 1989, at which time I was working in a screw machine shop (hated it), and had only completed two years of college.
Oh, and I asked if I knew you because the only two people named “Kevin” that I know are an accountant and a systems analyst/programmer (respectively). I thought you might be one of them, possibly. But it’s okay that you’re not. 😉
April 8, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Jesse,
Regarding your Post #118, which reads,
“hehe gotcha Douglas… that recommendation was for all.”
Yes, I knew that. I was trying to joke about how I have a bunch of fancy-schmancy books, but don’t use them (hardly).
“the apocrypha definitely isn’t for the new learner”
I agree. One needs a sound knowledge of the history of the apocrypha, where and how it contradicts the standard Protestant Bible, and a solid knowledge of the Protestant Bible itself, first. At least, in my opinion this would be best.
April 8, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Kevin, congrats on getting your life in order. That’s wonderful!
April 8, 2007 at 8:53 pm
Re: Douglas # 145: My error, I did mean topology. I’m so used to the term topography it just “typed itself.”
You are firm in your belief that evolution does not exist (or might in some degree) and there is no way I can state anything to get you to think otherwise. Live and let live; agree to disagree.
What college I attended, who the entomology professor was, and what evidence is of no concern. Challenging my education is the same to me as questioning my faith. My hackles rise the same way when someone asks me “What religion are you?” Translation is “What church do you go to?” That is usually followed by the condescending reply of “Oh…” and a look of disdain when the denomination does not agree with their beliefs. I’ve noted the same goes for education. I’ve often gotten the response of if you didn’t graduate from Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, etc, you might as well have an Associates degree from that company hawked by Sally Struthers on cable TV.
As for our interactions on the discussion of evolution, one poster applauded your abilities to dispute my points. I will concede that you are more eloquent than I in your aurguements, but we still have a difference in opinion that cannot be resolved in this lifetime. (Wave)
April 8, 2007 at 11:33 pm
DJ,
Regarding Post #159, in which you say,
“What college I attended, who the entomology professor was, and what evidence is of no concern.”
Yes, it is, since you are the one who raised those very points as a means of using an “argument from authority” to try to strengthen your argument.
“Challenging my education is the same to me as questioning my faith.”
In what way is asking you to verify, explicitly, your general and vague claims the same as “challenging your education”?
“My hackles rise the same way when someone asks me ‘What religion are you?’ Translation is ‘What church do you go to?’ That is usually followed by the condescending reply of ‘Oh…’ and a look of disdain when the denomination does not agree with their beliefs.”
This is the Internet – I doubt you could see any looks I might try to give you. But, DJ, not all such questions are followed by those things, and in many cases those questions are asked sincerely, in the hope of better understanding where someone is “coming from”. In my case, here, I am genuinely curious about where you received your education, and would like to see for myself the evidence you say you were shown. I would also like to know the entomologist, because I might be familiar with his name and some of his work (from a distance).
“I’ve noted the same goes for education. I’ve often gotten the response of if you didn’t graduate from Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, etc, you might as well have an Associates degree from that company hawked by Sally Struthers on cable TV.”
Pshaw (I know what you mean). Hey, my degree is from IUSB (“Indiana University at South Bend”), so don’t worry about my being snooty.
April 8, 2007 at 11:35 pm
DJ,
However, you are the one who offered that you had attended, in your own words, “a PRESTIGIOUS college” in America. Does this mean that YOU would look down on a “lowly” state university extension?
April 9, 2007 at 7:12 am
Douglas:
#153 :”Moloq,
Don’t you have anything better to do than interrupt an interesting, if unusual, discussion, and reveal yourself to be an adolescent, at least in heart?”
My friend,
We all should be adolescent at heart because if we forget to be so, we lose the essence of who God meant us to be. We must come to Him AS LITTLE CHILDREN and should remember not to take ourselves too seriously. Life is very dry without God ,or without a sense of humor.
As far as whether God created man and the universe in 7 days ,7 years 70 million years ,to me, it is only important to remember that He did so IN HIS OWN TIME.
Have a Happy Easter!
I believe in the following-
Apostles’ Creed
——————————————————————————–
1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:
2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:
3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:
4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:
5. The third day he rose again from the dead:
6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:
8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:
9. I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints:
10. The forgiveness of sins:
1l. The resurrection of the body:
12. And the life everlasting. Amen.
For others ,you may want to chew on the following :
Does God Exist – Things to Consider
Discoveries in astronomy have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that the universe did, in fact, have a beginning. There was a single moment of creation.
Advances in molecular biology have revealed vast amounts of information encoded in each and every living cell, and molecular biologists have discovered thousands upon thousands of exquisitely designed machines at the molecular level. Information requires intelligence and design requires a designer.
Biochemists and mathematicians have calculated the odds against life arising from non-life naturally via unintelligent processes. The odds are astronomical. In fact, scientists aren’t even sure if life could have evolved naturally via unintelligent processes. If life did not arise by chance, how did it arise?
The universe is ordered by natural laws. Where did these laws come from and what purpose do they serve?
Philosophers agree that a transcendent Law Giver is the only plausible explanation for an objective moral standard. So, ask yourself if you believe in right and wrong and then ask yourself why. Who gave you your conscience? Why does it exist?
People of every race, creed, color, and culture, both men and women, young and old, wise and foolish, from the educated to the ignorant, claim to have personally experienced something of the supernatural. So what are we supposed to do with these prodigious accounts of divine healing, prophetic revelation, answered prayer, and other miraculous phenomena? Ignorance and imagination may have played a part to be sure, but is there something more?
If God does exist, has He revealed Himself? And if He has revealed Himself, surely He exists…
Cosmological Argument – What Is It?
The Cosmological Argument or First Cause Argument is a philosophical argument for the existence of God which explains that everything has a cause, that there must have been a first cause, and that this first cause was itself uncaused. The Kalam Cosmological Argument is one of the variants of the argument which has been especially useful in defending the philosophical position of theistic worldviews. The word “kalam” is Arabic for “speaking” but more generally the world can be interpreted as “theological philosophy.”
Cosmological Argument – History
‘First cause arguments’ were set forth by Plato and Aristotle in the 4th and 3rd centuries BC. These arguments maintain that everything that exists or occurs must have had a cause. So if one would go back in time far enough, one would discover a first cause. Aristotle, a deist, posited that this first cause was the creator of the universe. Thomas Aquinas, a Christian, then expanded on Aristotle’s ideas in the 13th century AD and molded the first cause-concept into a framework in which the cause of the universe itself is uncaused: the First Cause is God. Founded on similar reasoning, the Kalam Cosmological Argument was developed by Muslim philosophers in the Middle Ages, but has not lost any of its philosophical power over the centuries. In recent years, Christian philosopher William Lane Craig has brought the Kalam Cosmological Argument back into the spotlight.
Cosmological Argument – The Three Premises
According to Craig, the Kalam Cosmological Argument is built upon the following three premises:
Whatever begins to exist, has a cause of its existence.
The universe began to exist.
Therefore, the universe has a cause of its existence.
The second of these premises requires some more explanation. With today’s knowledge, we may think this is a given, but we should keep in mind that for the longest time secular scientists thought the universe itself was eternal. Now, most scientific models for the origin of the universe, such as the Big Bang model, support the view that the universe had a beginning, but the Kalam Cosmological Argument uses a philosophical approach towards the concept of ‘infinity’ to show that the universe indeed had a beginning. Two separate philosophical arguments are used in this approach:
The first argument states that an actual infinite cannot exist. A part of an infinite set is equal to the whole of the infinite set, because both the part and the whole are infinite. Imagine for example an infinite collection of red and black balls. The number of red balls in this set is equal to the total number of all balls in the set, because both are infinite. The same holds for the number of black balls in the collection. Thus, the number of red balls equals the number of black balls equals the sum of all red and black balls. Obviously, the idea of an actual infinite collection leads to absurdities. This is also true for a set of historical events: it can be derived that the occurrence of a truly infinite set of events happening before a certain moment in time is impossible.
The second argument states that an actual infinite cannot be formed. History, or the collection of all events in time, is made up by sequentially adding one event after the other. It is always possible to add another event to history, which means the history of the universe is a potential infinite but can never be an actual infinite.
It is interesting that Craig also argues that the cause of the universe must be a personal Creator. In his words: “The only way to have an eternal cause but a temporal effect would seem to be if the cause is a personal agent who freely chooses to create an effect in time.”
Cosmological Argument – What Does The Bible Say?
The Bible tells us, from the very first verse, that God created the universe. “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). “The LORD made the heavens” (1 Chronicles 16:26). We know that God is not Himself a physical part of the universe. 2 Chronicles 2:6 states: “. . .the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain him”. We also know that “the LORD, the everlasting God” (Genesis 21:33) is eternal and infinite. “His mighty power rules forever” (Psalm 66:7). The Bible teaches very clearly that God is the uncaused First Cause who created the universe by willing it into existence.
The Kalam Cosmological Argument is consistent with the biblical account of the beginning of the universe and of the ‘First Cause’. However, it is only one of many indicators and evidences pointing to the existence of God the Creator as revealed by the Bible.
Creation vs. Evolution – A Question of Origins
The creation vs. evolution debate is a question of origins. How did we get here? Were we created or did we evolve randomly? Are we the product of purposeful intelligence or are we merely the end result of countless cosmic accidents? Does it even matter?
Creation vs. Evolution – Reason vs. Religion
The popular media often portrays the creation vs. evolution debate as science vs. religion, with creation being religious and evolution being scientific. Unfortunately, if you don’t agree with this label, you too are labeled. Regardless of whether you’re a creationist or an evolutionist, if you disagree with the stereotype, you’re condemned and “exposed” as a religious fanatic who is secretly trying to pass religion off as science or, even worse, trying to disprove science in order to redeem a ridiculous, unscientific, religious worldview. The fact is neither model of origins has been established beyond a reasonable doubt (otherwise, the theory of evolution wouldn’t be called the “theory” of evolution). Whether we like to admit it or not, those of us who subscribe to the theory of evolution do so by faith. And while the recognition of design in biology may have theological implications, it is not based upon religious premise – it’s based upon empirical observation and logic.
Creation vs. Evolution – Why Does It Matter?
Why do we even squabble over creation vs. evolution? Does it really matter what we believe about where we came from? Absolutely. Our views on morality, justice, purpose, self-worth, humanity, obligation, and destination are all closely tied to our views on human origins. For example, without affirming or denying the veracity of evolution theory, let’s take a moment to consider what the theory of evolution teaches about human origins and what impact this teaching has had upon human behavioral patterns.
Evolution teaches that as species evolve they eventually reach ideal population levels. As species advance, superior species eliminate inferior species — “survival of the fittest.” Weak and inferior members of a species should be eliminated for the preservation of superior bloodlines and for the conservation of essential resources. “Nature” doesn’t desire “the mating of weaker with stronger individuals, even less does she desire the blending of a higher with a lower race, since if she did, her whole work of higher breeding, over perhaps hundreds of thousands of years, might be ruined with one blow.” [1] “Thus, from the war of nature, from famine and death, the most exalted object which we are capable of conceiving, namely, the production of the higher animals, directly follows.” [2] And as humans are merely a species of animal, we have no intrinsic value and are therefore by no means exempt from “the war of nature.” Thus, we have Adolf Hitler (1889-1945) asking the rhetorical question, “should I not also have the right to eliminate millions of an inferior race that multiplies like vermin?” [3] Hitler, of course, is remembered for murdering more than 6,000,000 individual human beings, all of whom he deemed to be inferior members of the species. Was Hitler wrong? Did he misinterpret and misrepresent the theory he claimed to cherish so much? Apparently not. Renowned British evolutionary anthropologist and anatomist Sir Arthur Keith (1866-1955), who was knighted in 1921, came to Hitler’s defense, “Hitler is an uncompromising evolutionist, and we must seek for an evolutionary explanation if we are to understand his actions” [4] Keith reassured us, “The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.” [5] Joseph Stalin (1879-1953), another ardent evolutionist, surpassed even Hitler in zeal, murdering at least ten times as many “inferiors” (estimates range from 60,000,000 to 100,000,000 people). Was Stalin wrong? What about Pol Pot? Well, not if you subscribe to the evolutionary worldview. In fact, to the philosophically consistent, uncompromised evolutionist, Hitler and Stalin ought to be considered role models.
And so we see how a worldview can impact human behavior. Here, we see murder, a most disapproved human behavior, not only condoned, but encouraged. So, does it matter what we believe about where we came from? Absolutely. However, even more important than what we believe to be true is what actually is true. Someone might not believe in gravity, for example. Nevertheless, if that person were to step off a tall building, that person would splat on the ground below, regardless of what they believed. And so, once again, we have the question: are we the product of purposeful intelligence or are we merely the end result of countless cosmic accidents? Don’t rely on hearsay. Investigate the evidences for yourself.
Evolutionism – A General Definition
“Evolutionism” means different things to different people. For example, there are theistic evolutionists and there are atheistic evolutionists. But the basic premise behind the evolutionary world-view is atheistic. Theistic evolutionists are those who have managed to reach a compromise between two very distinct world-views: creationism and evolutionism. Evolutionism, in its purer form, is the idea that this universe is the result of random cosmic accidents. Life arose spontaneously via chance chemical processes, and all life-forms are related and share a common ancestor – from bananas to birds, from fishes to flowers, apes to Adam, etc.
Evolutionism – A Broad Overview
Evolutionism is a world-view, which seeks to explain every aspect of this world in which we live. It encompasses a wide variety of topics, from astronomy to chemistry to biology. At its core, it teaches that there were different stages in the evolution of our universe:
Cosmic-evolution. While the original “Big Bang” Theory is now a dead theory, from its ashes have emerged the “Inflationary Universe Theories” (IUT’s). Starting with Alan Guth in the late 1990’s (The Inflationary Universe: The Quest for a New Theory of Cosmic Origins), the scientific community has proposed roughly 50 different IUT variants. The general idea remains the same: In the beginning there was nothing. Then a “singularity” suddenly appeared, exploded, and the rest is history.
Stellar-evolution, Chemical-evolution and Planetary-evolution. After the primordial Bang, stars and planets slowly evolved. It’s thought that the initial explosion produced hydrogen, helium and possibly lithium. These three elements condensed to form the first stars. That’s stellar-evolution. The incredible heat and pressure inside of those early stars acted upon the Hydrogen and Helium, producing many of the chemical elements we observe today. This is chemical-evolution. We’ve identified 118 chemical elements, from Hydrogen (H) to Ununoctium (Uuo). 90 of the first 92 listed in our Periodic Table of Chemical Elements are thought to occur naturally, with the two exceptions being #43 (Technetium or “Tc”) and #61 (Promethium or “Pm”). How did the other 87 get here? Apparently, they were produced inside stars. When these stars died, these chemical elements were released into space. These elements eventually came together via natural forces, condensed and formed planets, more stars, and solar systems like our own. This is stellar and planetary evolution.
Organic-evolution. This is the idea that life spontaneously generated in a “prebiotic soup.”
Macro-evolution. This is the widely-held notion that all life is related and has descended from a common ancestor: the birds and the bananas, the fishes and the flowers — all related. From the goo, through the zoo, to you over millions of years! This is the stage of evolution which Charles Darwin popularized in his classic, Origin of Species, published in 1859. Darwin didn’t invent the theory, but he gave it credence by supplying a plausible mechanism: natural selection.
Evolutionism – Micro-evolution
The final phase taught in evolutionism is Micro-evolution. This evolutionary phase is unique in that creationists and evolutionists generally agree on this one. This is the idea that there can be variations within different kinds of animals. There can be tall people, short people, black people, and white people. There are many different shades of skin and many different eye colors, but people are still people. Just because your skin color is different from somebody else’s, that doesn’t mean you’re any less human than they are. No, we’re all human; we just express different traits. Human DNA allows for these traits. But variation is thought to be constrained by the genetic code. The code itself allows for variation, but there are genetic boundaries in place to limit them (people don’t turn into non-people, and pigs will never fly).
April 10, 2007 at 1:36 am
Moloq, I FOUND YOU. FINALLY. It’s unfathomable the digos isn’t cyron yet. Do you agree? The scientology of the mehru is limited to discussions in variables. Just as Douglas and DJ pointed out in the opulent. The intensity of their rises is disturbing, but the rand is near so I’m going to diffuse my rise. Mrs. DJ is humming the fuzz again. I believe her response was not of the true believer. The burrs in DJ must be coned. If their fuzz unites we can only hope they meld. Agree?
Thanks Moloq for the insight.
April 10, 2007 at 2:14 am
Kytal
You forget the first Law of Zogbhy regarding the zirpath and synapse theory of interstellar commutation. This is a basic flaw ,though fatal in its application.
As you very well know, the inverse of the converse is the contrapositive. So simple ,yet so complex.
If “melding” takes place, it would mark the end of zoltaq as we know it.
The alliance of BOLAQ ,QUEEN OF ZIRCONIA ,GRAND DAME DELUXE and ZORPAQ OF QUOGUE FIRST GRAND INQUISITOR OF THE PORTA EMPIRE would be all powerful and a crushing
blow to zirpopians everywhere.
April 10, 2007 at 8:24 am
Moloq and Kylal,
Please stop mucking up this discussion. Seriously.
April 10, 2007 at 9:23 am
Douglas, what’s with you? No one is mucking up anything. The discussion between Moloq and myself is just that. Between US. Who do you think you are? You’re exactly what the hymython has warned us about. The know it all that thinks he can push everyone around. The sysmett has leaned adversarily and DJ jumps to the lead. Personality enters into cosmatic circumfrence and you blew it. Amid canst. In Earth language, MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. LEARN TO SKIP OVER WHAT YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND OR DON’T LIKE TO READ and keep your innane babbling to yourself smarty pants.
April 10, 2007 at 10:45 am
Kytal
In deference to the wishes of Douglas, I withdraw to the cosmos from whence I came.
I bid you all a fond farewell.
Remember ,
May the Force be with you.
Maranatha!
April 10, 2007 at 7:52 pm
Kylal,
Your conversation here is completely off-topic, and shuts off all those who are not “in” on you and Moloq’s private universe. Save your other-worldly insights for private emails with Moloq, and allow this thread to focus on issues related to God, the Bible, Evolution, the Antichrist, and such things. Your cooperation would be greatly appreciated.
April 11, 2007 at 1:09 am
FINE!! I’LL GO.
DOUGL-ASS
April 11, 2007 at 8:50 am
Kylal,
Excellent. Now this thread might revert to a more adult and civil sort of discussion.
April 11, 2007 at 8:51 am
Although, Kylal, I hadn’t asked that YOU leave, just that you cease the “alien” talk which alienates all others here except for, apparently, Moloq.
April 11, 2007 at 11:44 am
Don’t patronize me. None of you understand the truth because if you did you wouldn’t be debating about a frickin moth. Who gives a crap if it evolves into something else or ends up being some frog’s dinner? You should concentrate on mylen. You don’t know what that is and you didn’t even ask. You’re all lost and you don’t even know it.
I’m leaving because I don’t like you and I popped in just to tell you that. I don’t like your alter-ego DJ either. Or his looney wife who is not only a submissive moron but is probably fuzzless, too.
Good by jerks.
April 11, 2007 at 4:07 pm
I for one am glad you’re boarding your spaceship and getting the hell out of here.
April 11, 2007 at 7:41 pm
Kylal,
Thank you for leaving.
April 11, 2007 at 9:47 pm
Dougl-ass, or should I say dig-ass, you always have to get the last word in don’t you, you big headed retard.
And Kevin, I’m not boarding a space ship just yet. When I do, you can be sure we’ll leave hind all the good for nothing uneducated factory losers, like you, so eat my ass.
April 12, 2007 at 4:26 am
Hey King Juan looking like hes going to kick the bucket in some of the photos I saw recently. Maybe he’ll be a round 5 more years or so though.
As for me I go into the “Great Mayo clinic” and got absolutly nothing done for help. They say I can get counseling and injections to fix the problem with my bone spurs. So my mothers went into debt for nothing to try and get me help and I still have these spurs. I realy want to move to Israel some day but I can’t because of my aflictions. I would ask that you guys would keep praying for me. So I can make it there someday and warn some of are Hebrew brothers they need Jesus and that Wicked Beast “Felipe” is coming to power soon.
By the way any of you know a Apostle thats around? I still have been looking to speak to one but all I can find are Benny Hinns (False Phrophets).
April 12, 2007 at 8:53 am
Kylal,
“Dougl-ass, or should I say dig-ass, you always have to get the last word in don’t you, you big headed retard.”
No. But then again, I thought you said you were leaving.
April 12, 2007 at 9:00 am
Jeff,
“Hey King Juan looking like he’s going to kick the bucket in some of the photos I saw recently. Maybe he’ll be around 5 more years or so though.”
If he IS the Antichrist, then he would need to “be around” for at least another 7-8 years, or more. I agree he’s not looking all that hale or hearty.
“I would ask that you guys would keep praying for me. So I can make it there someday and warn some of are Hebrew brothers they need Jesus and that Wicked Beast ‘Felipe’ is coming to power soon.”
Unless you’re CERTAIN that Felipe is the Antichrist, you should be sure to have some other plans. Besides, it’s unlikely that anyone other than the Two Witnesses will be given the ministry to warn the world about the Antichrist. Possibly others, prior to the start of the 7-year Tribulation, but it’s hard to say, and it’s hard to say to whom their warnings would be directed, if God had people warning others about who the Antichrist is prior to the 7-year Tribulation.
“By the way any of you know an Apostle that’s around? I still have been looking to speak to one but all I can find are Benny Hinns (False Prophets).”
Benny Hinn is indeed a false prophet, a charlatan and a wolf in sheep’s clothing (Armani). However, there are no Apostles any longer (with a capital “A”). There are those who plant and nurture churches (missionaries), and they function as “apostles” (with a lower-case “a”). There are, though, still “prophets” (though none have ever been designated with a capital “P” – the Apostles were unique cases).
April 12, 2007 at 11:50 pm
Douglas, you never responded to post 162. I take it that Moloq person is a christian? Do you get that impression? But then he talks with Kylal like he’s from some other universe. I don’t get it. And speaking of Kylal, that was quite a slam you gave me. Uneducated factory working loser. I agree, I don’t have a college education. I agree, I have a job in a factory. The government doesn’t support me. I’m not on welfare, I own a home, I pay my taxes, my job pays enough that my wife only works part time a couple days a week, I go to work every day and I make a pretty good wage. I’m not a loser. I don’t know what you meant by that, but if you said it to my face, you’d have another problem besides finding the mother ship and E.T. I don’t know if you’re a guy or a girl. If you’re a guy, you need to grow a couple and act like a man. If you’re a girl, you either need a new hobby or a man. I’m a lot of things, but I’m an earthling and I do have manners. Douglas, DJ, Mrs. DJ never did a thing to you but you resort to calling them names. You did say you were leaving, and I hope you did. But I have a suspicion you probably get on here to read what’s being said. Well, I’m thinking of two words I’d like to say to you. Guess what they are. I’m sure every language in the universe has a comparable two words so I’m sure you’ll get it. If not, you’re dumber than I thought.
April 13, 2007 at 12:16 am
Kevin,
“Douglas, you never responded to post 162.”
It was a long and involved post, and I don’t haven’t had a lot of spare time recently.
“I take it that Moloq person is a christian?”
Debatable. Hard to tell over the Internet, as there are people who can pretend to be Christians by copying and pasting, or merely parroting, what Christians say. His (or her) behavior here leaves me wondering.
Just as a word of advice, if you didn’t mind – don’t let the antics of someone over the Internet, or even in real life, get to you. “Put on the mind of Christ.”
April 13, 2007 at 12:16 am
“haven’t had”, not “don’t haven’t had”
April 13, 2007 at 1:44 am
Douglas, you’re right. Good advice. I need to put on the mind of Christ. It’s hard to change old habits and even though inside I want to do right, I screw up a lot. I have a short fuse and I don’t like people that say what they want because they’re not in front of you. Nine times out of ten, if they were in front of you, they’d never say what they did. If you do/did read that post, I’d like to know what you think about it. I might’ve offended DJ and I apologize if I did. He’s got a good head and I’d like to know his thoughts, too. I’m glad the nuts left. I just wish all the smart ones would stay.
April 13, 2007 at 4:46 am
Kevin:
You rang?
yes, I am a Christian.
No , I AM NOT A NUT.
Yes ,I LIKE TO HAVE FUN.
No, I do not take myself too seriously.
If I have said anything to offend or put off anyone, I humbly apologize.
That wasn’t my intent.
READ POST #162 FOR MY INTENT.
It is in plain english. It may be too long for Douglas’s attention span but I assure you,I DIDN’T JUST “CUT & PASTE’. I PUT THOUGHT AND CONSIDERATION INTO IT.
I meant it as a gift to you serious posters on this board. Just some food for thought.
The following is from “a Midsummer Night’s Dream “and also expresses my intent exactly:
If we spirits have offended
Think but this and all is mended
That you have but slumbered here
while this visions did appear
And this weak and idle theme
No more yielding but a dream
Gentles, do not reprehend –
if you pardon, we will mend
and as I am an honest Puck
if I have unearned luck
now to scape the serpent’s tongue
else to make amends ere long.
So good night unto you all.
Give me your hands if we be friends
and Robin shall restore amends.
April 13, 2007 at 8:39 am
Moloq,
“It is in plain english. It may be too long for Douglas’s attention span but I assure you,I DIDN’T JUST “CUT & PASTE’.”
No, it’s not too long for my attention span. My attention span is just fine. In fact, I have a wonderful attention span. It’s really quite amazing. I brag about it all the time. But what I really like to brag about it something else, although I’m not going to brag. Now, what was it that I was talking about?
April 13, 2007 at 8:39 am
“about is”, not “about it”
April 13, 2007 at 9:08 am
Douglas,
I say, old chap, you have a very quaint way about your round about method of twisting a phrase to make a point about what you are trying to express in some round about way.
I find it very amusing, however ,I was of the understanding that you desired that no one ,even yourself, was to muck up the thread with such playful banter. Did you change your mind on such matters or would you rather discuss post #162?
April 13, 2007 at 9:33 pm
Moloq,
“I find it very amusing, however ,I was of the understanding that you desired that no one ,even yourself, was to muck up the thread with such playful banter. Did you change your mind on such matters or would you rather discuss post #162?”
No, as my “playful banter” is accessible to others here, whereas yours and Kylal’s was only accessible to you and Kylal. There is a difference.
April 15, 2007 at 6:16 pm
After reading many posts on this site, I gathered several pictures off the net and linked them with windows movie maker along with my homemade music I created with FL Studio.
They have a total of over 20,000 plays on over 20 different video websites
many plays on Broadcaster.com/issown
many also on break.com search issown
feel free to watch my homemade videos
on BroadCaster.Com check out The Beat Video, Rosh Video, Strategy Video, March 07 Video, and EU Beat Video
http://www.broadcaster.com/video/search.php?f_id=35417
Artist Name: ISSOWN
feel free to comment on them
April 15, 2007 at 6:26 pm
I usually agree with most of Jeffs comments, I hope Jesus eases your pain from back spurs.
Jeff, please watch my homemade videos on broadcaster.com artist name ISSOWN, if you have trouble with that site just go to google and search ISSOWN Video, I put them in every video site I could find
May 17, 2007 at 12:59 pm
RE:Terrance Bazel (ISSOWN) I tried to listen to your misic and I don’t have the right software to listen. Can you put it in mpeg or a wmp format? Its not my computer so I can get new software.
As far as Jack Van Impe goes he emailed me back saying AntiChrist can not be reveiled. (Revelation 3:10).
I read through that scripture and it sounds more to me that it means. Know one will who the “man of sin” is until he is born and in the world. You see unless God tells us the exact name of the man and when he would be born, noone in the past would be able to know who he is. But know I beleive the man who will carry out Satans plan is here “felipe”. So another words he can’t be reveiled until he is in the world. Now that hes here the bible points right to him.
I see Bill Frist got cleared off his insider trading scandal. I’m wondering when he will anouce hes going to run. Possibly he could hold off till next year? You know what the media keeps saying we need for a Republican canadate?
A southern “Christian” who is like Ronald Reagen. What is Bill Frist? A southern “Christian” who is related to Ronald Reagen.
Do you any of you know who Pat Summeral is?He is a footballer player from the 50’s who looks alot like Babe Ruth. Possibly his son. The babe had numerous affairs so its possible he got dozens of women pregnant. Bill Frist does look much like Summerall (could be his son), I’m realy think hes his father an the illiamanti does switch there children at birth to cover there bloodlines.
But do you know the main reason why Frist will be President? He bears a great resemblence to George Washington are first Freemason President.
This bloodline stuff is real.
I had a dream last year where a nurosurgeon agreed to give me surgery for those bone spurs, then before I woke up the man changed his mind.
Well that came true the surgeon who agreed to give me surgery last year changed his mind. He played a bunch of games to cover his behind. So he could have an excuse not to give me the operation.
I have had two dreams this year. One where I was getting rushed on a strecher into surgeron. So fast that I was almost thrown off of the strecher, all kinds of karts were getting nocked over. Its was very comical.
I had another dream recently where I was complaining of how miserable I have been these years. I kept telling people how I use to be happy and would point out the spots where I was the happiest. Eventually in the dream the Lord seemed to take me into the past. I was free of my afflictions so it felt just like when life was better then it is now. Only it wasn’t the past, it was the present and it was better then it was as a happy child, God had restored everything that was stolen from me. He gave me more to make up what was lost.
So I know one of these dreams has to come to pass. Since the lying surgeon came to pass.
By the way I would watch out what you say to any Dr when it comes to Depression. Street people mostly think Depression is just being miserable and unhappy. “Clinical depression” is where a Dr demands you can’t be happy without there “crazy pills”. Its very scary at times the way Drs want to shove those down your throat. If a Dr diagnoses you it can chase you everywhere and be used as an excuse not to provide any proper medical service.
I main reason I’m posting today is I keep thinking about the 2008 election latley. Does anyone else agree its nice to see that theres possibly one genuine Christian running? That Ron Paul guy looks genuine to me.
I will change one thing, I will nolonger call Felipe the Antichrist, the bible actualy calls him the “Beast” and the “Man of sin”. An antichrist is anything that opposes Christ.
As far as those praying for me, I am in greater pain then I have ever been. Its very scary at times being stuck like this. I’ve been praying like never before. If the Lord never chooses to free me himself then I will have to find a Christian Nuerosurgeon to give me the operation some day. Thats very hard to find one.
The last thing I will say is , while I was in Rochester going to the Mayo. My family and I were staying in room 216. One day there I told my mother and brother do you hear it raining? They said “no”. Then the ceiling starting raining water all over the room. Somone had left there bathtub faucet when the water was shut off. When it came back on there tub overflowed and the water came through the floor. Take a guess what room number rained down on us? 316.
Hears a very funny page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MorganWebbs/
May 18, 2007 at 8:14 pm
Jeff I can email you the actual video files in mpeg format, I always show a picture of a leopard after I show Felipe Carlos.
Jeff email me at issown@fuse.net and I will transfer the files, the files are around 15-40 megabytes, it may take a little while to download.
Also check out http://www.myspace.com/issown listen to my 316 song in my profile.
Hey you may notice that new Linkin Park video “What I’ve Done”, looks similar to a combination of my homemade videos, It’s because my wife’s uncle raised Rob Bourdon, in Louisville ky. she was just a kid but would hangout with Rob and Mike Shinoda before they were famous, I’ve communicated with Rob and Mike a few years ago, even gave them one of my old homemade cdr cd’s via my wife’s uncle when he visited my house.
Mike emailed my and said he liked my song “Jesus Comin Back” about 4 month’s ago, they are some really cool guys.
Hey Jeff watch that what i’ve done video and
take a close look at robs Linkin Park symbol
on the drums, play close attention to the P
might notice that it looks like my ISSOWN ship the military’s secret jet the TR-3B.
I seen one in Texas back in I think September of 1999, I sounded like a hairdryer running about 40 feet off the ground, the thing was moving about a half a mile an hour just hanging in the air, I was looking out of the back door of my motel 6 around 11pm at night, it was a black triangle shaped aircraft with about 4 bright lights one in the middle and one on each corner, my eyes were fixed on the middle light like had a hypnotizing effect, it started slowly turning torward my direction, i got nervous and went inside and layed down, thought i was just seeing things due to exhaustion, i didnt even see it when i first looked out was just getting some fresh air, i saw something move in my periferal vision thats when i saw it, I searched the internet for black triangle ufo’s then i found the one i saw and research it, its the
u.s. military’s TR-3B, i used the Belgium UFO pic i found on the internet for my cd cover on CDBABY.COM artist name ISSOWN
i have to get off here but keep hanging on till the Rapture, its almost over
June 12, 2007 at 2:12 pm
http://jnormanii.wordpress.com/ for those who might want to read something a little different.
June 18, 2007 at 6:05 pm
Jesse Norman II,
Just a quick comment about something you had posted at your website: Actually, Sagan’s question about Cain’s wife doesn’t require that Adam not be the first person created. The other, simpler and Biblically consistent, explanation is that Adam and Eve had some daughters prior to Cain’s marrying a wife, and at least one of these daughters was of marrying age when Cain married. Cain would thus have married one of his sisters, which was something that God, in the Bible, did not prohibit until after the Flood (due to genetic deterioration, it would seem).
June 18, 2007 at 7:14 pm
As I explained though, it would have said Adam and Eve had other children at the time of Cain and Abel, as it is clearly written after mentioning Seth. If there were other children with Cain and Abel, it would have said so. Explain the mentioning of the race called the “kenites”. If they were both descendants of Adam, then why mention a new race? Which of Adam’s descendants became chinese, black, indian, caucasian? I realize what I put in my website isn’t taught by many, but there are some who believe as I do. Adam’s name itself points out his skin color. Two people created six thousand years ago couldn’t have created six billion people of all these races. As it is clearly written, God created man on the sixth day to have dominion over fish, birds, cattle, etc. Afterwards it says after the seventh day that there was a mist about the earth because God didn’t cause it to rain. Reason? He had no man to till the ground. Those aren’t my words, they’re His.
June 18, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Hey guys. DJ has not answered because he is with the Air Force in the middle east and should return in September. He is safe, he is busy, and he is having as good a time as is possible in 120 degree heat.
June 20, 2007 at 8:43 am
Jesse Norman II,
“As I explained though, it would have said Adam and Eve had other children at the time of Cain and Abel, as it is clearly written after mentioning Seth. If there were other children with Cain and Abel, it would have said so.”
Says who? Besides, you seem to forget that people back then lived a LONG time. Even if there were no other children of Adam and Eve when Cain killed Abel, there likely would have been plenty of time after Cain “went out from the presence of the Lord and dwelt in the land of Nod on the east of Eden” for Adam and Eve to have raised a daughter even to the age of marriage (18 or so years). Even if not, Genesis 4:3 indicates that it could very well be that Cain and Abel were well into their 30’s or 40’s (“in the process of time it came to pass”) before Cain murdered Abel, in which case it very well could have been that Adam and Eve had several daughters by that time who were of marrying age (18 or so years or more). There was no need for God to mention all of Adam and Eve’s children, nor even to mention the fact that they had various children at various stages – only the most important aspects were mentioned, as is reasonable and sensible.
“Explain the mentioning of the race called the ‘Kenites’. If they were both descendants of Adam, then why mention a new race?”
The “Kenites” are first mentioned in Genesis 15:19, along with a number of other “ites”, and one “im”. God mentions them during a conversation he had with Abram – LONG after ADam and Eve, and even LONG after the Flood. Abraham was not born until apparently about 292 years after the Flood, and during that time people STILL lived a LONG time (regularly living past the age of 200 years). Let’s assume a growth rate of 3.5% (reasonable, probably even quite low, given the circumstances after the Flood, when people were free to populate where and as they pleased, pretty much). This would mean each couple would bear, on average, 4 children (on average, 2 male and 2 female) every 20 years who would themselves reproduce. Not unlikely, again given the circumstances (more children would mean more help and more that could be accomplished). With an initial population of 8 after the Flood, the worldwide population would have been AT LEAST 350,000 by the time God spoke to Abram, and more likely would have been quite a bit larger, given the longevity of people after the Flood and even to Abram’s day. A population at least 10 times that amount (thus, around 3.5 million) would be far more likely. Under any of these scenarios, differing people groups could easily have arisen, where the groupings would be based on linguistics (recall what happened at the Tower of Babel, which occurred probably quite a number of years prior to Abram’s initial conversation with God), mostly, as well as some ethnic considerations. Finally, the Bible does not say that the “Kenites” were a different “race”. All the Bible mentions are differing “nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues” (Revelation 7:9, for example). I’m not exactly sure what you think “race” would mean, but there is no reason to think it would imply a distinct genealogical ancestry.
“Which of Adam’s descendants became chinese, black, indian, caucasian?”
Actually, the question should be: “Which of NOAH’S descendants became Chinese, Black, Indian, Caucasian?” And the answer would be: Historians have identified certain people groups as being descended from Shem, others from Ham, and others from Japheth, (acknowledging historical intermingling, of course), the three sons of Noah. This they have done based on the Biblical account of the areas to which those three sons and their descendants migrated. You can look up the details on the Internet, or in appropriate Bible commentaries, I’m sure.
“I realize what I put in my website isn’t taught by many, but there are some who believe as I do.”
I imagine. But there are even more who believe that Jesus was not God. Do numbers determine truth?
“Adam’s name itself points out his skin color.”
No, it doesn’t. Adam’s name means “ruddy” or “red” (literally), though it has the meaning “man” or “human being” in Hebrew usage. Nowhere does it say or imply in the Bible that “ruddy” was referring to Adam’s SKIN. It could just as well have referred to his HAIR. More likely, given that Adam was formed of the “dust of the ground”, it refers to the fact that Adam was formed from clay, which has a reddish color.
“Two people created six thousand years ago couldn’t have created six billion people of all these races.”
You betcha they could. You should look more closely at population growth studies and the mathematics behind them. In fact, 8 people only about 4000 years ago “created” all the 6 billion people of various “races” we have today. And it is quite mathematically and genetically possible.
“As it is clearly written, God created man on the sixth day to have dominion over fish, birds, cattle, etc.. Afterwards it says after the seventh day that there was a mist about the earth because God didn’t cause it to rain. Reason? He had no man to till the ground. Those aren’t my words, they’re His.”
Yes, but you’ve got the order wrong – read it again. Genesis 2:4-7 reads as follows (NKJV):
“This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and heavens, BEFORE ANY PLANT OF THE FIELD WAS IN THE EARTH AND BEFORE ANY HERB OF THE FIELD HAD GROWN. For the Lord God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground. And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man BECAME a living being.”
The description of there being “no man to till the ground” is in reference to a time which was “BEFORE” (not my words, HIS) there was any plant or herb in the field. The plants and herbs weren’t created until the THIRD day, and man wasn’t created until the SIXTH day. Thus, there most certainly WOULDN’T have been any “man to till the ground” before God created the plants and herbs, just like Genesis 2:4-7 indicates. I’m afraid you have not “rightly divided”, correctly understood, the Scriptures in this case.
June 20, 2007 at 7:24 pm
Several points on your argument. First point, I don’t read a NKJV bible, and if it indeed says that, it’s because they are making an assumption due to traditional teachings. The word “before” does not appear there in the old King James, nor does it in the Torah. That word “before” shouldn’t be there.
In Genesis where it talks of it not raining, but there was a mist about the earth, why would there be any need of a mist if there was no vegetation if indeed God was repeating himself. It’s actually pretty clearly written that in Genesis chapter 2, that God wasn’t repeating himself.
Second point, it doesn’t say anything about the descendants of Noah changing skin color, characteristics, or anything of the sort.
Third, “Adam” does mean ruddy as in reference to complexion. The exact meaning is “to show blood in the face”. The hebrew word “adam” meaning “man” was because Adam was a man. Their first man. You still have not come up with any real point from the generations from Adam, to Seth on down to Noah, then down to David, then go to the generations listed in Matthew which show if Jesus was indeed jewish, then so were his predecessors. If somehow the descendants of Noah turned black, chinese, indian, caucasion, greek, japanese, mongolian, arab, and somehow got slanted eyes and so forth, how come it’s not mentioned? Obviously God knew the other races existed so why not mention how it happened? God wouldn’t keep that a total mystery to those who really wanted to know his word and his ways.
I realize doing what I said to do in reading the bible, to put it in your head that you’ve never read it before, heard of it before, or heard anything in it before, then read it for yourself is much harder to do than to say, but if someone who actually never has heard anything about the bible before and truly read it from scratch, they would read that Adam was created after the sixth day, also. Should watch Arnold Murray on Shepherd’s Chapel. I don’t agree with him on everything, but he’s the best evangelist I’ve seen on tv.
June 21, 2007 at 2:36 am
Jesse Norman II,
“Should watch Arnold Murray on Shepherd’s Chapel.”
Uh oh. That explains a lot. Sorry to hear that that’s your advice, because I’ve listened to Murray before (this was a few years back), and he definitely does not have the fruit of the Spirit. A very harsh, judgmental, teacher, and often quite off the mark when it comes to Scriptural discernment.
June 21, 2007 at 2:38 am
Jesse Norman II,
“Second point, it doesn’t say anything about the descendants of Noah changing skin color, characteristics, or anything of the sort.”
It doesn’t need to. It’s not an important issue, spiritually, theologically, or in any other way except politically and for those with a racial prejudice.
June 21, 2007 at 2:39 am
By the way, the Bible also does not say anything about white people getting a tan in the summer. Hmmmmm….
June 21, 2007 at 9:03 am
Not mentioning how people turned color isn’t an important issue? I’d say that leaves a huge gap as to how the different races came into being. I don’t know how anyone can think of that as unimportant. White people getting a tan during the summer is temporary, not permanent. White people also don’t get slanted eyes from squinting. Do black people get lighter skin if they’re not out in the sun? According to traditional teaching, the void left as to how the races came about has allowed racists to come up with their own versions to propogandize their own prejudices. We’ve all heard some outlandish, racist points of view on the matter I’m sure. You called him harsh and judgmental, but you say “uh oh. that explains a lot. sorry to say that’s your advice” and “Hmmmmm”. This isn’t the first time you seemed aggravated rebutting me or other people I’ve seen on here.
June 21, 2007 at 1:23 pm
Jesse Norman II,
“Not mentioning how people turned color isn’t an important issue? I’d say that leaves a huge gap as to how the different races came into being. I don’t know how anyone can think of that as unimportant. White people getting a tan during the summer is temporary, not permanent. White people also don’t get slanted eyes from squinting. Do black people get lighter skin if they’re not out in the sun?”
I didn’t say it was an unimportant issue. It’s just not something that was important enough for salvation or spiritual edification, or historical knowledge, that God would choose to include in Scripture an explanation of the development of the different features of different peoples. Oh, and regarding whites and blacks and Asians and such: you are making a false comparison. Whites and blacks and Asians and such are examples of LOSS of genetic information, much like how poodles and chihuahuas are examples of loss of genetic information, their being derived from a common wolf or wolf-like ancestor. So, no, one would not expect whites to develop dark skin, nor slanted eyes, or any other such change taking place within an already genetically lessened people group (as all are today).
“You called him [Murray] harsh and judgmental, but you say ‘uh oh. that explains a lot. sorry to say that’s your advice’ and ‘Hmmmmm’.”
That’s correct. Murray IS harsh and judgmental (and I’m referring to his ATTITUDE as well as many of his opinions). And I apologize for my response – I could have been more polite. But it was a quick reaction based on some of my experiences with others who support or promote Murray, and on my knowledge of Murray himself. However, my response wasn’t really harsh, just not as respectful of you as it should have been. Again, my apologies. (Though this doesn’t change my opinion of Murray, mind you.)
“This isn’t the first time you seemed aggravated rebutting me or other people I’ve seen on here.”
I imagine. I’m not perfect, but I don’t think I’ve been as “aggravated”, or come across as too greatly “aggravated”, as you seem to think. Any “aggravation” I might have expressed would be due to not having enough time to continue dealing with things I feel I have already dealt with, or things I feel should not have to be explained or refuted. In some cases, though, aggravation is a not inappropriate response, if it isn’t too blatant.
June 21, 2007 at 1:29 pm
One last, quick, point, for now. Regarding “before” in Genesis 2:5 – actually, yes, “before” is the correct translation. The Hebrew word “terem” (tzaddi resh mem) is what is translated as “before” in that verse, and it is correctly translated as “before” or “ere” or “not yet”. “Before” is the correct translation of “terem” in the context of Genesis 2:5.
June 22, 2007 at 6:35 am
You’re right about the “before” part. It’s written in the old King James as well. I had a huge brain cramp, which happens now and then. Perhaps you’re right about Adam being created on the sixth day. I feel you are right in this case. I also feel very strongly in my soul however that Adam wasn’t the first man created, but just the first jew man. That all races were created on the sixth day, but to mention Adam because he’s the first jew and therefore the only pertinant one to mention. The reasons why I come to that conclusion is because God was pointing out his skin complexion. Plus, a new race was mentioned with the kenites being sons and daughters of Cain (if Cain married his sister, there would be no need to mention a new race). Finally, not mentioning anything else about how the different races came about is very important and telling. A person even without a skeptical eye can wonder how all these races came about. I think you take s look at mine and your points and the answer lies somewhere in the middle.
As far as the apology and explanation of how you come off, no problem. Patience does count for a lot. I have major health problems, and even though I’m direct, I try to be courteous. Thanks for the correction though. It’s good to debate things over and hope to learn more as time goes on from all different points of view.
When I came to the conclusion of Adam being created on the sixth day, but also only being the first jew while other races were also created on the sixth day, I knew it to be right. Something goes off in my head to tell me when I’ve figured something out. Again, thanks for the input.
August 4, 2007 at 8:40 pm
I don’t realy care anymore about Felipe and his evil father Juan Carlos. I wish I had never read the bible 7 years ago all it did was fill me with false hope that Gods actualy does things for us while were hear. I wish God would have just said the truth and let people know there we going to suffer and he wasn’t going to do a thing about it.
I got raised in the Assemblies as a kid and remember all those stupid songs about how God answers prayers and the Holy spirit helps you ect. Times like this I want to ring Gods neck for sitting on his behind doing nothing.
Why should I give a crap anymore about being a Jew and Israel? Who cares about a rapture or whatever going to happen the fact is people are going to have to suffer and Gods going to sit back and watch it happen like he always does.
I’m tired of God rewarding evil men in this world and just letting them do whatever they want. As well as there being no decent men of God in this world all the Pastors I have ran into are either evil, lukewarm or if they love the lord at all there prayers are still useless and there completely worthless for support. And then you run into people who are so crazed in inturpreting the bible they go insane reading off the scriptures.
So like Job I curse the day I was born and wish God had never created me.
If any of you find my post different then that of my usual then you know have seen what its like to here of a person be slowly tortured to death by the world.
August 13, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Hi all, I had a dream which revealed to me that this king is indeed the ‘antichrist.’ I have also had dreams which revealed a equitable social contract which will follow the downfall of the evil empire. I have posted all the links and information at my blog at http://blog.myspace.com/opticecho . My ‘cookbook’ is linked to from there as well.
May peace find you,
Geoffrey Richards
August 16, 2007 at 11:48 pm
Jeff,
“If any of you find my post different then that of my usual then you know have seen what its like to here of a person be slowly tortured to death by the world.”
Jesus said believers would be persecuted. God never promised that this world would be Heaven, nor even easy or pleasant. I don’t know what you’re going through, but each Christian has his or her own “cross to bear”. Also, recall what happened with Job, and note that he NEVER accused God of doing evil, or of being unfair – he never spoke evil of God. And God restored him, and revealed Himself to him.
It might benefit you to read “Foxe’s Book of Martyrs”, or “Last Words of Saints and Sinners” by Herbert Lockyer, or “George Muller of Bristol (His Life of Prayer and Faith)” by A.T. Pierson. The latter two books I recently purchased, and have been reading. I find them quite eye-opening and faith-inspiring, myself.
August 17, 2007 at 12:04 am
George,
I just visited your blog, and could not find where you described your dream (or any of your dreams). Perhaps you could provide a more direct link, or provide some direction for finding the links or articles at your blog.
I do want to say that you seem a very sincere, though Biblically and spiritually confused, (relatively young) man. I would like to point out that your following comment from your blog,
“Circumcision was a practice in response to public health risks because of not a lot of ‘bathing opportunities’ in the arid climates of the ‘middle east.’
Sodomy was a no-no because there were no preventative methods to avoid the spread of diseases at the time. You know, like condoms.
I’m not for or against any of these practices, I advocate tolerance and forgiveness. I want you to understand why there were public health proclamations made by religious people.”
reveals a decided unfamiliarity with or lack of understanding of the Bible, particularly the Torah (at the least). According to the Bible (see Leviticus 18), sodomy (male homosexuality, male sexual acts with another male) was a “no-no” because God found it “abominable”. It wasn’t merely some “health issue”; rather, it was a MORALITY issue. Furthermore, George, FAITHFULLY obeying God’s prescription for sexuality would PRECLUDE the possibility of male homosexuality (the “sodomy” you refer to), because God ordained that sex is sanctioned ONLY between married partners, and the ONlY marriages God sanctions are between males and females.
Furthermore, Romans clearly and conclusively condemns homosexual acts. Homosexuality was, is, and always will be an abomination in God’s eyes. IF one accepts the teachings of the Bible as being God’s will and revelation, of course. But if one claims to be a follower of Christ, one must LOGICALLY accept them as such, else one undermines one’s own claim about Christ, about Jesus.
August 17, 2007 at 12:10 am
Jeff,
By the way, I personally have clearly experienced God’s hand in my life many times. A number of times I have “heard” (in my mind) God speak to me – each of the members of the Trinity have “spoken” to me (in my mind), and I can discern which member of the Godhead it is that is speaking with me. (These “communications” have never been more than brief sentences, one sentence “per” communication.)
If you like, you can go to ” arn.org “, click on the link for “Discussion Forums”, then search through the “Off-Topic” forum for the thread titled, “Experiences with God” (it should be on the first page or two of that forum, at least as of August 16 or 17th of this year (2007). Or, you can try the following link (if it works): http://www.arn.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=189786&an=0&page=0#Post189786 . There, you will find descriptions of what I consider to be many of my “experiences with God”. (In case you hadn’t guessed, I go by the name, “Douglas”, at that site [ arn.org ].)
August 17, 2007 at 10:11 pm
Hi Douglas,
Completely separate from the other things written in the Bible, try to thing about Jesus’ stance of unconditional love, the advocation of forgiveness and pacifism, the advocation of anarchism (he was saying that the corrupt laws of the culture he lived in were an abomination). I understand there are parts of the Bible which talk of human sexuality, but I am more interested in helping people find tolerance and acceptance of others’ views and lifestyles than condemning anyone. Of course, everyone has their own views, I just believe in my heart that Jesus was truly an advocate of compassion and mercy.
Kind regards,
Geoffrey
August 17, 2007 at 10:34 pm
Another way to look at it–is it ever written that Jesus walked around with a copy of the Torah and advocated the destruction of cities?
Taking the argument further, you see people with WWJD (What would Jesus do?) bracelets–and reactionary people have pumper stickers “Who would Jesus Bomb?”
Do you see what I am getting at?
Regards,
Geoffrey
August 18, 2007 at 10:16 am
Geoffrey,
I don’t have much time this morning, so I will leave you with a thought, and return some time later (tomorrow? the next day after?) for a more detailed response. I want to point out that Jesus’ mission was one of mercy, that He sacrificed Himself on the cross for the sins of mankind, enduring separation from God the Father (“My God, My God! Why have you FORSAKEN Me?”). I further want to point out that the mercy shown in Jesus’ life and sacrifice wouldn’t be all that “merciful” if it weren’t in the context of a severe and impending JUDGMENT and PUNISHMENT. For example, if the only punishment due is a slap on the wrist, withholding that slap is “merciful”, but not particularly impressive. Likewise, Jesus’ sacrifice sins implies that sin deserves a very SEVERE punishment. Jesus Himself said, in Matthew 5:17-18 (NKJV):
“‘Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will BY NO MEANS PASS FROM THE LAW TILL ALL IS FULFILLED.'”
Keep in mind that by “the Law” and “the Prophets”, Jews meant essentially the Old Testament, particularly (by “the Law”) the Torah (the first five books of the Old Testament – this includes the Book of Leviticus, which has the condemnations of homosexuality). Thus, Jesus affirmed the sinfulness of homosexuality, its deserved severe punishment (as sin), while offering mercy and forgiveness for those who would REPENT of their sin.
Telling people something is NOT sin, when it is, is to mislead them, potentially into severe judgment and an eternity separated from God. You should be very careful to “rightly divide” (correctly understand and explicate) the “word of truth” (the Bible).
August 18, 2007 at 9:18 pm
“Likewise, Jesus’ sacrifice sins implies that sin deserves a very SEVERE punishment.”
should read,
“Likewise, Jesus’ sacrifice implies that sin deserves a very SEVERE punishment.”
August 18, 2007 at 9:43 pm
Hi Douglas,
I accept that the Bible and the Torah have written the verses you quote. What I don’t accept is the infallibility of every word and chapter written therein. If I am wrong, it is only God’s place to punish me, would you agree?
Is it impossible to accept that people with political motivations added their own political agendas? Or is it possible that someone who personally was intolerant of homosexuality could have slipped their personal distaste into the Torah under the guise of the will of God?
You could look at other chapters in Leviticus which tell men to not talk with women during their cycle. Is this a practice you observe today? Also, there are other verses about when and how it is acceptable to sell one’s daughter(s) into slavery. Are these practices ‘kosher’ in the eyes of God today?
Adherence to the 10 commandments seems relevant today for a self-proclaimed Jew or Christian or Muslim. Again, if I am wrong in my interpretation of the core teachings of Jesus or Moses, is it any other humans’ duty or right to carry out justice against me? Or is it clearly written that judgment is God’s alone?
Kind Regards,
Geoffrey
August 18, 2007 at 9:50 pm
Ultimately, if you find homosexuality to be distasteful or a ‘sin,’ I believe that you have 2 main choices.
Would you make your life’s mission to picket outside gay bars with placards that tell people of the hell that awaits them (if you are correct that homosexuality is indeed a sin reviled by God)? I think of this as ‘spitting venom’ and I believe it does more to drive a wedge between you and people who you may find to be allies in a greater struggle against a common foe.
Or you could take the ‘live-and-let-live’ attitude, not engage in the activities of homosexuality which you find distasteful, and try to live the most pious life you can, all the while trying to forgive people for something you find to be ‘wrong action.’ (i.e., leave it up to God to pass judgment)
Kind regrads,
Geoff
August 18, 2007 at 10:16 pm
Here is an article which talks about the different interpretations of the Bible and how it relates, if it does, to homosexuality. Bot everyone interprets the Bible the same way it is safe to say:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_homosexuality
Would you condone the trading of virgin daughters to be raped so that men are not? These are ancient books written in ancient languages which have nuances which are probably difficult to understand or translate when separated by multiple-thousands of years.
Regards,
Geoff
August 23, 2007 at 7:32 pm
Anyway, please feel free to disregard anything above I have written. I have decided to stop making waves. I can’t un-write what I wrote above, but please choose to live your lives as you see fit, and believe whatever you choose to believe.
Kind Regards,
Geoff
September 22, 2007 at 2:44 am
Hello
Cool site!
September 29, 2007 at 9:06 pm
Geoffrey,
“Completely separate from the other things written in the Bible, try to think about Jesus’ stance of unconditional love, the advocation of forgiveness and pacifism, the advocation of anarchism (he was saying that the corrupt laws of the culture he lived in were an abomination).”
That’s an artificial and unjustifiable “separation”, because what Jesus said and did was IN THE CONTEXT OF JEWISH CUSTOMS AND LAWS. Furthermore, He did not advocate “anarchism”, and the only “laws” He rebuked were those RELIGIOUS laws which religious men had attempted to foist upon the people – He made a clear demarcation between those which were “commandments of men”, and those which were ordained by God. And, He AFFIRMED the “Laws and the Prophets” as being ordained by God (in saying He did not come to “destroy” them but to “fulfill” them). Note that the “laws” regarding sexual immorality were included in the “Law” (the Torah), and thus were AFFIRMED by Jesus as being from God.
“I understand there are parts of the Bible which talk of human sexuality, but I am more interested in helping people find tolerance and acceptance of others’ views and lifestyles than condemning anyone.”
And what if their lifestyles are lifestyles of SIN, Geoffrey? Did Jesus go about promoting tolerance of sinful lifestyles? What did He say to the woman caught in adultery? “Go and don’t worry about it”? No, He said, “Go, and SIN NO MORE”, meaning that He was affirming that adultery was a sinful “lifestyle”. Likewise, by His other statements regarding the “Law and the Prophets”, He affirmed that there ARE lifestyles which ARE sinful, and He thus affirmed, by His references to the “Law and the Prophets”, that homosexuality is just such a sinful “lifestyle” (since it is condemned in the Torah, and Jesus affirmed the Torah as being God-ordained and just and right).
“Of course, everyone has their own views, I just believe in my heart that Jesus was truly an advocate of compassion and mercy.”
Certainly He was. But there is no “mercy” if there is no sin, Geoffrey. There is also no justified mercy without repentance. This was the heart of His entire message, Geoffrey: “Repent, and believe the Gospel”. What you are doing (unintentionally, I’m sure) by promoting the idea that homosexuality should be “tolerated” and that Jesus would not have “condemned” homosexuality is to hinder the ability of those trapped in that sinful lifestyle to repent, to realize and acknowledge that they need to repent of their homosexuality, and you are thus hindering their ability to turn to God and find forgiveness and eternal life. Ultimately, your actions might result in their being condemned to an eternity in Hell. Sin is serious business, Geoffrey.
In Christ,
Douglas
September 29, 2007 at 9:07 pm
“Law and the Prophets”, not “Laws and the Prophets” (“Law” in this context referring specifically to the Toray, the first five books of the Bible).
September 29, 2007 at 9:14 pm
Geoffrey,
“Ultimately, if you find homosexuality to be distasteful or a ’sin,’ I believe that you have 2 main choices.”
Interesting.
“Would you make your life’s mission to picket outside gay bars with placards that tell people of the hell that awaits them (if you are correct that homosexuality is indeed a sin reviled by God)?”
Not unless God specifically called me to do so, and not unless I had good reason to think that sort of “mission” (picketing outside gay bars with warning placards) would be at least somewhat effective and fruitful.
“I think of this as ’spitting venom’ and I believe it does more to drive a wedge between you and people who you may find to be allies in a greater struggle against a common foe.”
Most likely. The picture you portray does indicate a warning without love. How about someone standing outside gay bars with placards which read: “God says homosexuality is a sin, but He loves homosexuals and wants to forgive you, if you will repent”? Would that be better?
“Or you could take the ‘live-and-let-live’ attitude, not engage in the activities of homosexuality which you find distasteful, and try to live the most pious life you can, all the while trying to forgive people for something you find to be ‘wrong action.’ (i.e., leave it up to God to pass judgment).”
That’s it? Those are the only two choices you can see? What about the following possibility: One devotes a relative portion of one’s time to reaching out to those caught in the sinful lifestyle of homosexuality, via various means, including handing out pamphlets, using the Internet, and writing articles and books; and one performs this ministry boldly, without compromise, but does not engage in condemnatory, angry, confrontations of an accusatory nature, realizing that we are all sinners. Would that be a legitimate, third, option?
In Christ,
Douglas
September 29, 2007 at 9:26 pm
Geoffrey,
“Here is an article which talks about the different interpretations of the Bible and how it relates, if it does, to homosexuality. Not everyone interprets the Bible the same way it is safe to say:….”
Certainly “not everyone interprets the Bible the same way”. But that is no argument against what the Bible clearly says about homosexuality. No more than the fact that not everyone interprets the Bible as saying that Jesus was God, died for the sins of the world, and physically rose from the dead. Jehovah’s Witnesses say that Jesus was not God; the Unity School of Christianity teaches that Jesus did not die for the sins of the world; and those in agreement with the “Jesus Seminar” say that Jesus did not physically rise from the dead. Would you therefore conclude that, because there are groups which disagree on each of those issues (not merely small in number groups, either), the Bible is therefore not clear about those issues?
“Would you condone the trading of virgin daughters to be raped so that men are not?”
No. And where in the Bible does God condone that? If you read carefully, you would note that it was LOT who attempted that “trade”, and did so under duress. It was also more “natural” for men to have physical relations with females, and so would have been “less abominable” for the men of Sodom to have such relations with Lot’s daughters than with his male guests. However, note that it was LOT who suggested this, not God and not the angels. Nowhere is Lot said to be speaking on behalf of God in this, nor does the Bible anywhere suggest that this would be an acceptable action to take.
“These are ancient books written in ancient languages which have nuances which are probably difficult to understand or translate when separated by multiple-thousands of years.”
I think you play the “ancient book” argument too easily, and neglect to take into account that the vast majority of the events portrayed and things said are not the difficult to convey from one language to another. Even granting various “nuances” that might be there, the “gist” of what is taking place in all cases that I can think of can readily be gotten across, from one language to another (at the very least, from Hebrew and Greek to English). You also seem unware that the Book of Isaiah, in Hebrew, has undergone practically not even a single letter change in over 2000 years (compare the copy from the Dead Sea Scrolls with modern Hebrew versions of the Book of Isaiah). There is no room in the Book of Leviticus for “nuances” to change the clear meaning of its condemnations of various sins, including its clear condemnation of homosexuality (along with beastiality, adultery, etc.).
In Christ,
Douglas
September 29, 2007 at 10:27 pm
“are not that difficult to convey”, not “are not the difficult to convey”
October 21, 2007 at 12:24 pm
As a former vessel for the Spirit of Elijah, this man has been watching the king for years. Now on this date, there could be a sudden move to negotiate peace between the children of Ishmael and Isaac. The American “Roadmap” plans would lead to disaster if implemented — and, so, if the United Nations/European Union become involved, the king could possibly be a primary negotiator.
October 21, 2007 at 5:53 pm
James,
Who is “this man”? You? If so, why “FORMER vessel”?
October 30, 2007 at 2:13 pm
Jeff,
Are you mad that Frist did not run?
LIfe is hard, quit blaming God.
November 11, 2007 at 5:28 pm
This is total nonsense. More tricks like the British invention of the “Spanish Inquisition”. Certainly if SM don Juan Carlos is the anti-Christ then Hugo Chavez is right and George W. Bush is the Devil himself.
November 11, 2007 at 7:19 pm
You “Armegeddon Coctail Hour” folks are truely nucking futs!
November 12, 2007 at 3:46 am
Mark,
Thank you for the helpful and insightful, though poorly spelled, post.
November 20, 2007 at 2:33 pm
Doug, I love the site. I am paying close attention to all things prophetic these days, as we are so very close to something incredible taking place.
Keep up the good work. And man alive, that Juan Carlos is one handsome dude and a snappy dresser.
LOL
November 21, 2007 at 4:33 am
Tim,
This is not my site. I’m just visiting. 🙂
I did, though, write an article back in August of 2000 about King Juan Carlos being the “top candidate” (the editor’s word choice) for the position of Antichrist. Someone else then copied the article to their site, and it can be found at vaulterjohn.tripod.com/King_Juan_Carlos.htm , with a “Google” search headline of “King Juan Carlos.htm”.
Snappy dresser indeed. “Dressed to kill”, perhaps? 😉
December 4, 2007 at 5:36 am
The Antichrist is Prince Felipe of Spain. I have been praying about this for years now and I have been given visions about the end and many other thing horrible things that are happening in the world and I can prophesy. I am a true prophet of God in these end times. I have been given great gifts by God since I was eleven, In which I was struck by Multiple Sclerosis and was miraculously healed by the power of our Lord Jesus Christ. Since then I have been annointed. This is the truth and you must believe. You must use your discernment to understand that what I am telling you is true. Walk with Jesus Christ and turn not your face to wickedness for these times are the end.
December 7, 2007 at 12:40 pm
Justin,
A true prophet of God usually has objective evidences with which others can discern his calling. What are yours?
December 8, 2007 at 5:46 am
RE: Kern
As much as I have suffered I have learned that I can say whatever I please to God while I suffer. Even evil men in this world acknowledge that “if you torture someone enough they’ll saying anything”. God knows how much I have suffered so you need to learn to put yourself in someone else’s shoes.
Even Christ pleaded with God to remove the cup he had to bear, yes he still submitted to Gods will but he still asked for him to take it away.
So if Christ the Lord asked for that being perfect , how much less will a mere man such as myself be able to keep enduring without B$%#ing and complaining to God?
God is my father, if my Earthly monther can understand me swearing and cursing her at times because of how much pain I am in, how much more
can my heavenly father understand why I say the things that I do?
I still beleive somehow Bill Frist will be the next President.
As for the reply to Douglas, Job did say “though will he slay me still will I whorship him”. But if you read Job he actualy spent most of the time he suffered cursing the day he was born , B%@#ing and moaning about how miserable he was. Why do you think God chewed him out with some many questions when he finally answered him? God realy did not care that much because he knew Job was suffering, instead he was mainly angry with Job’s so called friends who any weren’t in any pain, God was ready to kill them but Job asked for mercy.
If any of you want to know what I am like then rent Tranformers the Movie from 1986 the cartoon one. Watch the character Hot Rod Closly
and you will see what kind of person I am like.
December 8, 2007 at 4:23 pm
Jeff,
Two things: First, neither Jesus nor Job is said to have sworn and used foul language in complaining to God. Job, of course, moaned and complained, but that’s not quite the same thing as “saying whatever he pleased” to God. Second, Jesus’ request that the cup be taken from Him was in regard to His upcoming separation from God the Father, not to His physical suffering.
Having said that, just realize I’m not condemning you for your complaints to God – God is merciful, and is aware of our weaknesses, and so far I myself have not had to suffer much physically. I do believe and know that God does not give us more than we can bear, and I believe that includes not giving us more than we can bear without cursing or swearing at God (that is, whatever God allows in our lives won’t be enough to justify our cursing or swearing at God).
December 9, 2007 at 1:22 am
Douglas:
“that is, whatever God allows in our lives won’t be enough to justify our cursing or swearing at God”
You see we have different views of who God is. Yes God won’t put more on us then we can bare, but it doesn’t mean he won’t let the world torture us to the point we can’t stand living in our own skin. Do you think every single christian who was ever burned at the stake sat there and said
Glooooorrrryyy to GOD!!! Hallelujah !!!
No they didn’t, I’m pretty sure some of them said “why the F#$k did you ever create me?”
That is caused by suffering. Thats why Jesus wept when he looked over Juruselam, because he knew all the suffering that was going to happen
because of stupid men.
There no diffence between saying oh Fudge or Oh F#$@$, they both have the same meaning behind them.
You know when the Bible talks about swearing its talking about people who just casualy say swear words just to throw them around, its not talking about people suffering or being thrown in jail or many of the other ways there are to suffer in this world.
My grandfather just throws the name out all the time JESUS CHRIST!!! using his name in vain all the time, which is greater then swearing at God, what did the Commandment say, do not take the name of the lord thy God in vain.
The Holy Spirit does not remove and just magicaly lift us above pain and suffering. Very few people get to see God like Steven did before they stoned him to death, seeing God helped lift him above the stoning.
When I was about 2 my brother Chris threw my head against a wall and it cut me. So I had to get stiches. As I was getting the stiches the nurse stuck a orange sucker in my face and it distracted me so much I didn’t even feel the stiches being put in.
God has given me no way the majority of the time to deal with this suffering. Since God has not provided a way for me to deal with this at times he has to deal with reprucusions of how I will act for not providing the help that I need.
Praying to God does not make a magical essence surround us and make us impervious to pain and suffering. There are times though when God lifts me above the pain with love, joy and hope like he does with think of myself on top a Merkava Tank and living in Israel. But that is not 24-7-365. If it was I would never swear at God unless I was cracking a joke to him.
I have learned that when I don’t know what to say to a person that is suffering, I just keep my mouth shut and pray for them. The difference is I understand suffering more then you. Gods needs men of understanding, thats the men he can use.
God takes us as we are, if your legs are broke, God does not expect you to walk, but man still does. If a person is a drug addict and comes to the lord. Then the lord takes them as a drug addict. If they ask God to take it away and the addiction never leaves, then they die taking drugs. Then God still takes them as they are.
December 9, 2007 at 4:13 am
Jeff,
I absolutely stand by what I said,
“…that is, whatever God allows in our lives won’t be enough to justify our cursing or swearing at God.”
There are many people who want to justify their own sins, their own failings. My point, Jeff, is that whatever it is you are going through, no matter how difficult, it’s NOT ENOUGH to justify cursing God. Do you forget the story of Job, where his wife encouraged him to “curse God and die”, and he responded that she spoke as one of the foolish women did? Are you cursing God, Jeff? If so, you might want to consider whose advice you are following.
December 9, 2007 at 12:09 pm
Doug you don’t get it.
Do you realy think Curse God and die ment saying “$#%# you God why aren’t you helping me deal with this pain like you promised” as I have ?
No it Meant “turn your back on God, reject him and die”.
Job didn’t forget about God he kept his faith in him despite all the nasty things he said.
Job’s wife did not say “say a “cuss word” to God and die”. She said Curse God and die “.
You don’t understand what the meaning of the word curse meant in that scripture. It did not mean to say a “swear word”.
Job said “I curse the day I was born”.
Thats as good as saying in our modern language “fu#$ you God you should have never created me”.
They didn’t have words like F##@ and Shi$ and Bit$## back then. They used different words back then for swearing then they do now.
So I say you don’t know God as well as I do Doug. Thats why you don’t understand what I am talking about, you also by your own admitence have said you have never suffered as I have. So you don’t have a clue how you would act had God allowed you to have the same afflictions as me.
Tell me this Doug if you had a best freind and some one was beating on you infront of them and your friend just sat there and did nothing while they had to power to stop them. Would you not get angry at that friend for doing nothing? If the damage were permanet and everytime that affliction made you scream and beg for death from hurting you so much. Would you not get mad at that freind for there just sitting there when they could have prevented the whole thing?
Any normal human being would get angry and would want to swear at that freind, maybe even slug them at times or even do worse to them.
Now not only is God my father , he is my best freind as well. And you can say anything you want to your best freind because they love you and know why your saying it. And that freind is smart enough and loving enough to know that when someone is hurting that they say things at times that THEY DO NOT MEAN. Any why God just sits there at times and does nothing is quite frustrating to the point of insanity.
So your putting God into a little Box making him out to be a judgmental Beast whos out to get anyone anytime they fail him.
Shame on you Jeff you said “F#$^ to God” look at how terrible of a person you are. Repent!!!! Repent!!! You have sinned Jeff !!!! Who are you to speak to the Almighty that way !!!! Blasmphemy!!! Blasmphemy!!!
Remember Doug Men actally took a cat and nine tails and whipped Christs back open, they ripped his beard out and gave him a crown of thorns, then they stripped him naked and crucified him mocking him the whole time.
So you you think that saying a cuss word to God while your suffering is as bad as what those men have done or what other evil things men have done over the years? All those men had to do was ask God for forgiveness and in less then a heartbeat God would have forgiven them. Same goes for Caeser, Napolean, Ghengas Kahn or any of the other warmongers who ever lived.
I will never say you are not a Christian Doug, but I will say you are an idiot!
December 9, 2007 at 10:31 pm
Boy this thread has just gone everywhere. For anyone who cares, DJ is in Europe and does not have access to this site any longer.
December 11, 2007 at 4:09 pm
Jeff,
And I will say you do not appear to be a Christian, because you do not bear the fruits of Christ, and because you think you can justify something the Bible condemns. Nor do you correctly discern my meaning, nor that I made a distinction between “cursing” and “swearing”.
Rather than admit what you do, in swearing at God, is sin, you try to attack me for pointing it out, and attempt to justify your use of foul language. I have never said swearing at God is a terrible, terrible sin, nor have I made any comparison between that type of sin and, oh, the sin of those who crucified Christ and blasphemed Him. The Bible itself is clear that there is only one sin that is unforgivable, and that is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which, though you seemingly confess to regularly blaspheming God and Jesus, you apparently haven’t yet done.
I imagine you will hate me for mentioning this, and consider me cruel and malicious, but Jesus said that those who call others “fools” (or “idiots”, same meaning) will be in danger of Hell fire. Keep in mind that I wasn’t the one to make the connection, it was Jesus. “‘By your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.'”
Lastly, your “analysis” of Job is astoundingly wrong. Job’s wife advised him to “curse” God, then die. Job did NOT curse God; rather, he “cursed” the “day he was born”. That’s not an imprecation against a Person, but a statement of how terrible Job felt, so terrible he wished he had never been born. And, swearing and cursing are of a piece – they are related, though not exactly identical. They generally go hand-in-hand, as they seemingly have with you.
Once again, Jeff, you should try to follow Jesus’ and Job’s examples, NEITHER of whom, upon undergoing great physical suffering, swore at or cursed God. Not only should you consider their examples, but also the examples of multitudes of Christians who have been willing to suffer far greater physically than you have (being sawn in two, being tortured on the rack, burnt at the stake, skinned alive, etc.), yet have not sworn or cursed God.
Do you believe the Bible, Jeff? Do you believe what God says? Then consider that God says that He will NOT give a person more than they can bear. And while He is certainly understanding of our weakness, and willing to forgive us when we fall short and swear at or curse Him, there is absolutely NO reason to think that He EVER gives anyone a cross to bear that that person cannot bear WITHOUT swearing at or cursing Him.
December 11, 2007 at 5:33 pm
Jeff and Douglas
“Patience is the companion of Wisdom.”
Saimt Augustine
Saint Augustine also said”Hear the other side.”(Audi Partem Alteram.)
Why can’t you boys play nice?
December 11, 2007 at 7:18 pm
a voice in the wilderness,
I HAVE “played nice”. But when someone refuses to acknowledge their sin, that needs to be pointed out. I’m not sure what Jeff’s problem is, other than that he is suffering quite a bit, and apparently not liking having his sin pointed out. Bear in mind I am not saying his sin is “major”, by the way.
December 11, 2007 at 7:23 pm
Mrs. DJ,
I hope your husband is well. I also hope he has come to his senses, and is now in agreement with me on the issues we’ve discussed here. 😉
December 12, 2007 at 6:10 am
“I imagine you will hate me”
I don’t hate you, to be honest I think your a little dumb. You don’t understand how the Central Nervous system affects your everyday life, hot it affects you mentally, pyscially a
nd spirtually.
You don’t know how it feels to have bone spurs for 8 years all along the back of your skull.
Having a headache everyday for 4 long years.
Having almost no curve through most of your spine so half your body functions don’t work at %100 there normal rate. Look into sublaxtion and you will know what I am talking about.
Going over three weeks with no sleep, wondering if I will ever sleep again. Having every vertbrae and pelvis constantly twist with no way to stop it. Being mocked for 8 years by Drs and Pyscologists.
Thats only part of what I have been through. The rest I am not going to say.
Now when the bible talks about blasphemy its talking about men who openly reject God and curse him and intentionally do whicked things because they hate God and anyone that loves him.
Its not talking about men crying out to him with whatever they have left.
How do you know how much these bone spurs hurt me? Do you live with me and see how it affects my everyday life? Have you listened to me scream in pain off and on for 8 years? Have you ever read the scripture , “Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life.” ? Proverbs 13:12
Do you understand what that scripture means?
Beside these bone spurs and back problems. I have alot of things thats bother me, alot that have made me want to give up on life and I am still waiting for God to answer me. Some things for over ten years I have asked God for.
Jesus told us to keep asking and to keep asking just like the women did with the unjust king.
The bible does not tell you where to work, how to find a job, who to marry, who to be freinds with, who to vote for, if and when God will ever do a maricle for you, what bed to buy, how to drive a car, what to eat, how much you should eat, when you should eat.
The bible also did not, whipe your rear end when you were a little baby, feed you, cloth you, shelter you, teach you to read and write, tell you how to take care of yourself you got out on your own.
The bible does say that one thing may be a sin to one man and not to another. So just because you don’t understand why I say the things I do to God at the times I have, does not make it a sin.
Were you there when every Christians has been martyred? Did you hear every singal word they said to God as they were being tortured. Could you read there thoughts as there were dying? How do you know what they have all said to God?
Why are you comparing me to other people anyways? Jesus didn’t run around telling people “this man hast suffered more then five fold days then thee, thou ist lacking in Gods eyes, thou worm who darest cry out in pain!!!”
The bible leaves alot of blanks when it comes to situations in this life. Thats why if you don’t seek God outside as well as within the pages of the Bible, you will never truely find him.
December 12, 2007 at 6:30 pm
Jeff,
GOD LOVES YOU! He has sent His only begotten Son to redeem us. I know you have a deep and abiding love for God . You ARE a Christian!You are just hurting.
Seek God in all things. Offer up your pain in solidarity to the One who bore all our sins.Jesus will never abandon you .
The Seven Capital Sins
“Be sober and watch: because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, goeth about seeking whom he may devour. Whom resist ye, strong in faith: knowing that the same affliction befalls your brethren who are in the world. But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory in Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a little, will himself perfect you, and confirm you, and establish you. To him be glory and empire for ever and ever. Amen.” —1 Peter 5:8-11
“The kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent bear it away.” —Matthew 11:12
“That in all things God may be glorified.” —Holy Rule of St. Benedict
“True understanding of the nature and effects of the Capital Sins is the first step in combating them. Let us take up arms now and go to the battle! We will be what we will to be!” (Pages 46-47)
“For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and powers, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places. Therefore take unto you the armour of God, that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and to stand in all things perfect. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of justice, and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace: in all things taking the shield of faith, wherewith you may be able to extinguish all the fiery darts of the most wicked one. And take unto you the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit (which is the word of God).” —Ephesians 6:12-17
My Resolution for Today
I resolve this day:
To do all in my power to resist evil and to do good.
To fulfill all the responsibilities of my state in life faithfully.
To observe kindness and honesty in all contacts with my fellowmen.
To preserve complete purity of soul.
If I should be tempted to evil, I will repeat in my heart the words, “Do what is right; Be right; Be cheerful!”
That I may be able to keep this resolution,
I ask the help of God, my Creator.
Chapter 1 – Pride
Pride was the first sin committed. It was the sin of Lucifer. It was also the root of the Original Sin committed by Adam and Eve. Pride is the greatest of sins because it is the summit of self-love and is directly opposed to submission to God. It is, therefore, the sin most hated by God, and the one He punishes most severely. The punishment of the Angels, of Adam and Eve, of Nabuchodonosor, related in the Book of Daniel (4:27-30), bear witness to this. Pride is likewise the greatest sin because it is the fountainhead of the self-love in which all other sins take root: “From pride all perdition took its beginning.” (Tob. 4:14). There is a species of pride in every sin, whatever may be the individual nature of the sin itself. Pride is the most dangerous of sins, because it blinds our understanding, and unless something finally makes us realize the truth, we are liable to go on, day after day, in a spiritual self-delusion, imagining our acts to be good and virtuous when certain habits actually may be vicious. When we are blinded by pride, we do not consider our talents and abilities as God’s gifts to us, but attribute our good qualities to ourselves, with the right to use them as we see fit. Everybody is infected with the virus of pride! But there is a particular kind of pride in each individual; at least a particular kind dominates, though there may be several of its viruses in the same character.
This pride determines our temperament or our type of character, or at least is intimately related to it. Searching into our type of pride is very important for obtaining a true knowledge of ourselves, and for making fruitful efforts to root out sin and vice from our life. If we are of a sanguine temperament, our pride takes the form of self-centeredness. We want to be the “hub of the wheel”; we want others to notice us. We are touchy and easily offended. Our pride goads us to seek fame, praise, admiration. We fall into vainglory. If we have a choleric temperament, our pride is manifested in a strong self-will. We find it hard to submit to others or to yield to their opinions. We are often overbearing, critical, given to arguing, inflated with a sense of superiority, inconsiderate of the rights of others. If we are melancholic, our pride conceals itself under the garb of self-pity and oversensitiveness. Resentment, harboring grudges, suspicion, and unexpressed hostility are included in it. Often this pride is not recognized for what it is because it conceals itself as such, so we do not confess it as pride. If we have a phlegmatic character, our pride inclines us to self-complacency and vanity. We are likely to be shocked by faults in others, but quite satisfied with our own selves. Pride of superiority makes us want to control the lives of others, to impose ourselves on them, to “domineer” over them. It makes our will rigid and unbending when others assert authority. It is a self-will and obstinacy that sets us against the will of God, opposes our neighbor and makes us inflexible in carrying out the dictates of our own self-love.
Anger, indignation, arrogance, the spirit of contradiction and haughtiness are some of its offspring. This pride is usually rooted in a strongly opinionated mind which makes us refuse to see the light of reason or the truth evidenced by principles of revealed Faith. This unwillingness actually fosters ignorance. It is the pride which keeps many from entering the Church, or returning to the practice of the Faith when they have fallen away. Closely connected with this kind of pride—or perhaps we should say another name for it—is the pride of independence. This leads us to disobedience and insubordination, to contempt and arrogant contradiction, to refusal of advice and assistance, to resentment of reproof by lawful authority, to blasphemy against God, bitter cursing, oaths and irreverences in word and act. Delusions in regard to our own defects, self-conceit, attributing to ourselves our good qualities of mind, of person or of fortune—rather than to God, reveal pride of intellect. Sins against Faith arise from this pride.
The pride of ambition leads us to seek positions or offices of honor and dignity by which we prefer ourselves to others, however worthy they may be. It makes us dream up schemes and projects, and undertake things through presumption, even when we are ignorant of how to go about them. Excessive confidence makes us overestimate our abilities. Immoderate desires, vainglory, the desire for praise, ostentation and the immoderate use of necessities of life in order to be more highly thought of, stem from this pride. It leads to flattery and hypocrisy.
We may have a pride of spiritual vanity, imagining ourselves to be perfect and our acts always virtuous or finding a thousand reasons to diminish their gravity or excuse our faults when we do acknowledge them. Our pride may dress itself in the guise of naturalism, in which case we practice no restraint in our behavior, no modesty in our language, no respect in our obedience; we are deceitful in our humility, caustic in our conversation, inveterate in our hatred, a foe to submission, greedy of power, desirous of supplanting others, indolent in action and work. We act through impulse and meddle in the affairs of others. We wish to know everything through unrestrained curiosity. We like to be always talking, even of what we do not understand. We may have a pride which makes us cynical. If so, we speak sarcastically and use cutting words. We ridicule others, scold and misjudge them.
Pharisaical pride leads us to boastfulness and to criticism of others. It makes us overtalkative; it leads to lies and contradictions; to esteeming high birth or social rank above virtue. Haughtiness of manner, disdaining to associate with those we believe to be inferior, arise from it. It manifests itself by a legalism in our actions, causing us to fulfill our duties without spirit, but with hypocrisy. Our pride may hide itself in sensitiveness, or self-pity. In this case we are over-anxious about what others think of us. We brood over imagined wrongs and do not easily forgive others.
Closely linked to this form of pride is the pride of timidity, which stems from unreasonable fear. It makes us fearful of others’ opinions, so that we cater to human respect. Under its impulse we fail to act when we should, because a groundless fear holds us in the bonds of a spiritual sloth that paralyzes our efforts and makes us incapable of determination, and so we let opportunities pass by unused.
The pride of scrupulosity fixes our attention on wrong things, so that we pay exclusive attention to what does not merit such attention, while we are unscrupulous in things which ought to concern us. Our pride may be centered on our wealth and prosperity, our station in life, our fine clothes, our wit, beauty or strength. It may even grow out of our piety and good morals, as indicated by some of the above groupings. Pride can ruin all the virtues and draw us into all kinds of disorders. The proud person is capable of any sin. “Pride goeth before destruction; and the spirit is lifted up before a fall.” (Prov. 16:18). Therefore it is most necessary in the spiritual life to fight this vice in whatever guise it presents itself. If we permit it to enter our heart, the germs of all the vices enter with it, and we soon find ourselves a slave of Satan. We must beware of being ensnared by it, for the end of the proud, unrepentant sinner, as revealed by God, is the everlasting fire of Hell, in company with the demons.
Remedies for Pride
The only way to get the better of pride is to practice humility. It may sound like a contradiction, but the humble man realizes that he is proud, and earnestly strives to overcome the manifestations of pride in his life. In striving for humility, we must always have before our eyes the example of Our Lord. We must keep in mind His promises in favor of the humble and the vengeance He reserves for the proud. We must cling to God and do His Will with all our soul. We must have recourse to prayer, again and again asking for this virtue. We must live in the presence of God, practice self-denial and the other Christian virtues, especially patience, forbearance, charity, meekness, submission, abandonment to God and conformity to His Will, sympathy, confidence in God, compunction for sin, modesty. We must not seek honors, but admit our nothingness and lack of virtue. We must be willing to accept humiliations and strive to seek God in all things.
December 17, 2007 at 5:59 pm
Jeff,
“Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life.” ? Proverbs 13:12
“Do you understand what that scripture means?”
Yes, very well.
December 17, 2007 at 7:20 pm
Douglas J. Bender :
Pardon me for my lack of knowlege, but could you explain in what context you used
Proverbs 13:12 in Post 246?
December 19, 2007 at 1:02 am
Doug
Will you please explain what you say it means?
Proverbs 13:12
December 19, 2007 at 5:35 am
Jeff:
Since Doug is not answering:
Matthew Henry’s Concise Commentary
13:6. An honest desire to do right, preserves a man from fatal mistakes, better than a thousand fine-drawn distinctions. 7. Some who are really poor, trade and spend as if they were rich: this is sin, and will be shame, and it will end accordingly. Some that are really rich, would be thought to be poor: in this there is want of gratitude to God, want of justice and charity to others. There are many hypocrites, empty of grace, who will not be convinced of their poverty. There are many fearing Christians, who are spiritually rich, yet think themselves poor; by their doubts, and complaints, and griefs, they make themselves poor. 8. Great riches often tempt to violence against those that possess them; but the poor are free from such perils. 9. The light of the righteous is as that of the sun, which may be eclipsed and clouded, but will continue: the Spirit is their Light, he gives a fulness of joy: that of the wicked is as a lamp of their own kindling, easily put out. 10. All contentions, whether between private persons, families, churches, or nations, are begun and carried forward by pride. Disputes would be easily prevented or ended, if it were not for pride. 11. Wealth gotten by dishonesty or vice, has a secret curse, which will speedily waste it. 12. The delay of what is anxiously hoped for, is very painful to the mind; obtaining it is very pleasant. But spiritual blessings are chiefly intended.
December 20, 2007 at 12:12 pm
Jeff, and Jake:
“The delay of what is anxiously hoped for, is very painful to the mind; obtaining it is very pleasant.”
That is how I interpreted Proverbs 13:12, except that “a tree of life” is far more than merely “very pleasant”. I almost laughed when I heard the commentary compare “a tree of life” with “very pleasant”, as “very pleasant” is so much weaker than “a tree of life”.
January 10, 2008 at 8:30 am
antichrist will be so ugly ,, he will have one eye an the other is green as glass he will be kinda short but strong he leans forward while he walks ,he will claim he is god, why u would believe in an ugly man claimin he is god? cz he will do miracles not seen since jesus christ days, he will bring back the dead ,cure the blind etc.. control the rain , the food. the plants , the trees , the wind , pple who wont believe in him will die in hunger as the second day he passes by these pple , there food an plants will be dead as dust , there will be no technology left if u think that when bush is gone there will be no war , there will be war cz a great event will come it wont pass by this easily ,he will rule for about 40 days
,,the first day in his rule will be like 6 months ,the second day will be a year the third day will be so an the rest will be like a normal day ..,then jesus will come an kill him near by jerusalem as he will promise them jerusalem ,, an they will fall for it, as we know jews through history of betrayels so that wont be a new thing to us humans ,, they believe god gave them the land an they should take it , so when they believe the antichrist is god , they will fall in their greed..jesus will come to correct whats wrong in all humanity and in all religions and to correct the bible which was messed up by romans an jews behind the scenes for the church benefits of ruling pple cz its human philosophy which is nothing compared to god , >
inquisition etc…………1!!!!!! all that an u believe no man’s hand touched the bible in all these corruptions and evil acts …
don juan carlos ur clues r numbers an misleading things , if u want to find 666 everywhere u will eventually find it , if u want juan carlos to be the antichrist then he will add up for sure,, not cz he wears a satanic symbol means he is as he is not THAT FOOOL TO REVEAL HIMSELF BY THIS , an woow u r all smart pple ehh , oh here is the symbol he must be the antichrist , maybe he a satanist , maybe he is a false prophet as there will be many claimin they r the antichrist only one an last is true an he will reveal himself , he awaits war , cz war will bring humanity to its knees ,imagine world war 3 ,with all this military technology ,imagine the destruction of humanity ,we laugh now at the weapons of ww2 ,imagine what our weapons can do now. it will be total destruction , the antichrist will reveal himself in the weakness of humanity , when humanity really needs a live god , they will believe in him desperatly , thats how the devil defeat man by fear he enters ur heart, when ur too weak to know the wrong from right …. dont be fooled pple by ur prediction ,, no ordinary man will easily survive this war not even king of kings as u pple say king of jerusalem heh everybody can call themselves anything ,its not evidence ,
January 10, 2008 at 11:30 pm
WRONG. The antichrist will look just like Jesus, except for the fact that he will become a werewolf when the wolfsbane blooms, and the Autumn moon is bright…
January 17, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Why would any of you want to be anywhere with such a rath filled angry god? Do you base your lives on a book of dogma written by men?What is it’s accuracy? Are any of you prone to study comparative religion ? And if so how can you give creedance and base your life on a book so full of myth and rehtoric? You cannot say you are a true believer unless you have experienced and studied the many great faith systems of the bulk of humanity. And when you reallistically approach faith you will realize the truth. There are no enimies there is only Love and all paths lead to this revelation. Man and his fear have nothing to do with the source from where we all come and go. Heaven is in you now, you were born a part of it all and it will never not be available to you . You are just looking out of fear to control what you have yet to understand .Keep searching, your God is right in front of your nose just a little inquiry and a shift in perspective and the answer is yours. And Spain is a fantastic faith filled beautiful diverse country .I imagine Juan Carlos is responsible for much of it’s progress and democratic stability, it has such a history of great unrest and this is a time of positive outcomes in a land of centuries old religious persecutions. We should all be thankfull to the Spanish King and what good he has created.Do you really want salvation from a God full of revenge and hatred isolated from millions of loving decent people who cannot join you in the rapture because they have differing beliefs. You will be surrounded by a pleathora of profoundly ignorant and judgemental people of so called faith sounds like a great place to spend eternity! Men mke up really crazy stories to stave off a fear of the unknown and death. Mabey a search to find out what death really is would be a warranted start . I do not share your fears or judgement but I know we will all be together forever on some plane of existance.”Everything is stars ultimately”…………..even Juan Carlos.
January 17, 2008 at 11:57 pm
To ila — I am a Christian, but I, too, don’t agree with what is posted here about all the Anti-Christ candidates. The Anti-Christ is supposed to be someone who effectively will rise and come out of nowhere and take the world by storm. In my estimation, none of these men are, because they are just that — men. And I don’t believe any of them are evil. There is also another assumption working here that may turn out to be false as well— we are assuming “The Rapture” will take place during our lifetimes. The truth is, we actually don’t know when Christ will return, and if someone tells you they do know, then they are misinformed.
And on some of the things you posted on Christians with which I disagree, I’m going to fill it in:
Christians believe that the Bible is the divinely inspired Word of God and that God moved men to bring it together in the way that it did. The books were written by different people and spanned different time periods in history. There was no real collaboration on their part, how could there be? The people who wrote them had no other agenda except to tell it like it happened. Tell me, you seem influenced by this new age stuff, but you are not open-minded enough to possibly believe that the Bible was divinely inspired? There is a higher power — but there is also much evil in the world. And why would God permit it — well, because men have free will and God does not control each individual’s choices. You may not realize it, but there is spiritual warfare between good and evil going on right at this very moment. And evil can disguise itself in many different ways. We have to choose wisely in order to save our own souls. How will you choose?
And the god you speak of being full of wrath is not the same God I worship. The Old Testament also paves the way to the fact that the Messiah is coming. Yes, God was wrathful at points in the Old Testament and for good reason — like with Noah and the Great Flood. Many men and women had turned away from God and were evil. And there is concrete evidence that shows that indeed there was a great flood around the time Noah lived.
Whether you believe anything I say here or not, I do know for myself that God loves me because His beloved son died on the cross for me, and like another poster put it, ‘either Christ is the biggest con artist who ever lived, or He’s the real deal’. For me, I believe Christ’s the real deal. Christ was the ultimate sacrifice, and He fully accepted His fate, which by the way, crucifiction was a terrible, tortuous way to die. I think there was nothing over the top about Mel’s Gibson’s portrayal of Christ’s crucifiction in that movie, ‘The Passion of the Christ’.
And on the day and at the very moment Christ died, the earth shook and the sky went dark, and the veil of the temple was ripped — there indeed was supernatural upheaval. Google it for yourself.
Christ died for us, bearing the weight of the sins of the world for us, so that we would be able to inherit the Kingdom of Heaven when we pass from this earth. But we must believe in Him.
For Christians, Christ is the only way to salvation. Jesus said, “No one comes to the Father except by me.” Read the four Gospels in the New Testament to see who Christ is, and was, and who will forever be. He was the most perfect being who ever walked the face of the earth, and His love for you is immeasurable. Yeah, sure, there are quite a few Christians who are judgemental, and Christ warned people about being judgemental (Read Matthew 7:1-4) — but that doesn’t mean all of us are. And I know people who practice other religions, but we never hear publically how they can at time be judgemental. It’s human nature to be judgemental. From some of the things you’ve posted, you have been somewhat judgemental against me.
Anyway, I believe Christ will come back, as stated in the Bible, but that doesn’t necessarily I subscribe to the Rapture Theory (dispensationalism) . The Rapture is based on a timeline put together by an evangelist (Darby) in the late nineteenth century, and there are disputes among those who believe in the Rapture as to the time line itself. But by the same token, I don’t believe in discrediting the book of Revelation.
I have a personal relationship with God. And as for ‘men making up stories to stave off death’ — most Christians realize that we are all virtually the walking dead, my dear, and that we don’t live forever, and that we need to get ourselves ready for the day when we leave this earth. Our God is a loving God, but He also demands loyalty and obedience from us as well. Believe it or not, he wants us to love Him as He loves us.
I pray that what I’ve said has opened your eyes that they truly see, so that you can understand perhaps a bit more objectively.
January 19, 2008 at 5:33 am
The identities of the beasts of Revelation chapter 13 will not be known until they ascend out of the bottomless pit, after it has been opened at the Fifth Trumpet.
The beast of Revelation 13:11 is the false prophet.
Pat (ndbpsa ©) Bible Prophecy on the Web
January 27, 2008 at 3:47 am
AWaytoTruth,
“The Rapture is based on a timeline put together by an evangelist (Darby) in the late nineteenth century, and there are disputes among those who believe in the Rapture as to the time line itself.”
No, the basic idea of a Rapture prior to the Tribulation has been around since the early Church Fathers, and is even implied in the New Testament. Darby simply explicated it in a more detailed way.
The “Restrainer” who restrains the revealing of the Antichrist is almost certainly the Holy Spirit in His “embodiment” in the Church. The Church is Christ’s Body on the Earth, having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The Antichrist is not revealed (in his full anti-God rebellion) until AFTER the Restrainer is “removed” – the only Being Who could restrain Satan’s revealing of the Antichrist is the Holy Spirit (acknowledging that God the Father and Jesus now have their primary “residence” in Heaven, whereas the Holy Spirit was “sent” to Earth, to the Church). Given this, and given that the Holy Spirit is everywhere in a “non-indwelling” capacity, it is most likely that the removal of the Restrainer occurs when the Church is removed from the Earth in the Rapture.
January 27, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Douglas:
Ok, I stand corrected.
January 28, 2008 at 10:22 am
i think the best way to test is, easily try to kill the father and the son. if u are successful then this article is holy shit if not…….rofl
January 28, 2008 at 5:12 pm
AWaytoTruth:
Off Topic:
post 58 Mel Gibson Predicts end of world by 2012
AWaytoTruth Says:
January 13, 2008 at 5:35 pm
For the record. I am gay. Is being gay tolerated by Christianity? If I poke another Christian in the butt will I go and burn forever in hell? After last night I decided to fill my dark desires and screamed, penetrate me more superman. I am worried what is to cum? Me or the Devil man in my room right now? Please fellow Christians, Help me. Show me the light? Will I go to Hell for being Gay?
Was this post made by you? I suspect that it was made by a certain individual who is causing problems on this website. I found an inconsistancy in that you signed off on one of your postings “A Sister In Christ.”
Barack Obama Running for AntiChrist?
Post 32
AWaytoTruth Says:
January 25, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Hey you all — I don’t think Barack Obama is the anti-Christ. For one (and yes, I could be wrong)I think Hillary Clinton is going to get the nomination from her party, not Barack Obama. I say this because the Clintons are going to yank the rug out from underneath him — remember, they are professional politicians and are good at doing whatever it takes. But still, I think it is wise not to let down your guard. The anti-Christ is going to be far more evil than we have ever imagined. If he appears in our lifetimes, I just hope that my faith will save me as well as many others who believe.
A Sister In Christ.
Please respond as this “stuff” has gone on long enough and we want to help end it by having this individual banned from this site.
I have been following your comments and find you to be a true Christian ,your posts to be informative, thought provoking and full of compassion.
Thanks for your attention,
Jake
January 29, 2008 at 1:02 am
Dear Jake,
I didn’t post that particular one — “For the record, I am gay” non-sense under the Mel Gibson 2012 thread. I assure you, I would never post anything that vile. I posted how I felt in the subsequent post from the ‘real me’ in response to him in a manner as to how I should handle the situation — with compassion because obviously he has a lot of issues. (I also think he might be gay himself, so that is why I addressed the gay issue as a Christian, and my own thoughts on it of course, I can’t speak for everyone. Anyway, I wondered why he seems to be obsessing on making comments associated with homosexuality. But then again, he might not be gay. Either way, I guess, I really don’t care if he is or not. What I do care about are his antics.
At any rate, he was still abusive and I asked the moderator to remove the postings he posted using my user name. He did that other abuse under Arnold thread. You can go back and see my original posts are there, but his are gone — lol, it makes me look like I am talking to myself. However, I am glad that stuff was removed because it, too, was very vulgar. I neglected to tell the moderator about the other post, though I did mention it.
However, I did post the stuff about believing Barack not being the anti-Christ. My feelings are that none of the men suggested as candidates here are, but of course, that’s my own judgement. But it will be God’s judgement that will matter to us all in the end, regardless of our own thoughts and feelings on it. The truth will be revealed to us should it happen in our own lifetimes.
And I assure you, I’m not like that Gollem character(Smeagol). LOL
Anyway, I find that person “Truth to the Way” (he perverted my user name, too) isn’t contributing anything worthwhile and is upsetting a lot of people. He should get the boot permanently. I’m really surprised he is still allowed to post since he did to me what he did.
At any rate, I am a female and married with a family and I above all, Love the Lord. I wouldn’t poke my finger in God’s eye like “Truth to the Way” is doing.
God Bless and thank you for your kind words and I hope this has cleared up some things in your own mind regarding those posts.
A Sister In Christ
January 29, 2008 at 2:02 am
Oh, yeah, I have begun to sign off using ‘A Sister in Christ’ for a few of my last posts, though some of my previous one’s I haven’t, but it is still the real me AWaytoTruth. lol
January 29, 2008 at 6:00 am
WaytoTruth:
I figured out that he was posting under assumed names previously. If you go back to the Mel Gibson thread you will see how a few other posters were bothered by him. Some of their replies are very well made.
This has been the first time I have found him to post vile comments under someone else’s name . That should be enough to have him banned now that we have the evidence.
I am sure Quay Fortuna is watching as I have also alerted him to this clown.
Anyway, nice chatting with you and I’m sure we will chat again.
Best regards,
Jake
January 29, 2008 at 6:57 am
Thank you, Jake. I pray it will soon be resolved. And it was nice chatting with you, too! God bless.
A Sister In Christ
January 31, 2008 at 5:43 am
he is to old!! the real antichrist is Tony Blair
February 1, 2008 at 5:01 pm
davemonar,
Yes, he’s getting rather old. Still not quite “too” old, I don’t think, but not far. If the 7-year Tribulation were to start this year, then he’d be 77 years old when Jesus returns at the end of the 7 years — pretty old, but not extreme (after all, Moses was 80 when he led Israel out of Egypt, and the Antichrist will be supernaturally empowered by Satan).
Even if King Juan Carlos is not the Antichrist, his son would also fit the same prophecies, including having a version of his name calculate to 666 (though only one version that I can find, rather than the 10 I found for King Juan Carlos). In any case, Spain is very involved in the Middle East peace process, and so any “candidate” from Spain might reasonably be thought to be the Antichrist.
February 6, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Following dessert, here’s some meat on Google you can chew on: “Pretrib Rapture Diehards” (all key persons in the 1830s admitted that pretrib was THEN a brand-new view!), “Pretrib Rapture Desperados,” and “Famous Rapture Watchers” (the only rapture view before 1830). If you want to go whole-hog, read THE RAPTURE PLOT (Armageddon Books online) and find out the rapture documents that no one, for a century, knew existed in British libraries!) Jon
February 8, 2008 at 12:36 am
Jon,
“all key persons in the 1830s admitted that pretrib was THEN a brand-new view!”
If they did, they were actually mistaken. No doubt they meant that their particular EXPLICATION of the “Pre-Trib Rapture” was “brand-new”. Two different, but related, things. The idea of a pre-Trib Rapture was in existence within the first 100 or so years after Christ. I’ll have to look up the references to the Early Church Fathers who taught versions of pre-Trib Raptures.
February 8, 2008 at 12:50 am
Jon,
Actually, it appears that only one early work (“Pseudo-Ephraem”), apparently from the 4th Century, clearly and directly teaches a pre-Trib Rapture. But that does not really matter, because the very earliest, most authoritative, writings do clearly teach a pre-Trib Rapture (see raptureready.com/rr-pretribulation-rapture.html for explanations).
May 12, 2008 at 2:18 am
What you are all forgetting is that the anti-christ must mimic CHRIST. This would include his AGE. CHRIST was little know until his 30th birthday, when he started preaching. And was crucified at 33.5. Therefore the anti-christ must mimic this to be recieved as the CHRIST. How old is juan carlos? And the bible dosen’t say that he would MAKE a covenant with many, it states that he would CONFIRM a covenant, which means that the covenant is already in place by someone else.
May 12, 2008 at 2:48 am
Who is the ANTI=CHRIST & who is THE FALSE PROFIT? I believe that the anti-christ is PRINCE WILLIAM. Check out his bloodlines & his age. He was born june 21st 1982. That makes him 30 years old on june 21st 2012,the same age of Jesus Christ was when he entered the scene. There is a reason that the pagan calander stops december 21st 2012. The pagan’s messiah is the anti-christ. Some people may think that the next pope is the anti-christ but there are mistaken. The NEXT POPE is the FALSE PROFIT. But all this is for you to research. The truth is there for the to discover if you have a open mind & heart for JESUS.
May 16, 2008 at 4:39 am
Hey Doug just letting you know I am still around and I wanted to let you know something I found out just today.
King Juan Carlos is the 7th King the Bible talks about
Revelation 17:10
Prince Felipe is the 8th, the Antichrist
Revelation 17:11
Re: bond
FALSE PROFIT is not the Pope. I use to think that 2 years ago. But I waited for God to tell me who it is, then I saw this Maitreya Garbage. Take a look at this nutball man and his message.
http://www.maitreya.org
One world religoun. Theres videos around the net of this pysco speaking.
They say he can open the Seven Seals, which the bible says only Christ can open. Thats even more blaspomous then the Pope.
The pope is far to “white-caucasin” to fool the world. The City on Seven hills is destroyed, which is Rome. The last Pope will defie the Antichrist and he and all of his loyal Catholics will be wiped out by him.
Prince Willam will probably be one of the Kings who make the deal with the beast. Although I think he mite not be as wicked as his younger brother. His could be bumped off some day and Harry could get on his knees for the beast.
September 21, 2008 at 7:53 pm
Well here it is, Sept. 2008 and Bill Frist and Hillary Clinton aren’t even candidiates…
September 21, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Get another hobby guys…You keep contradicting yourselves.
September 23, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Jeslott,
I haven’t contradicted myself yet, I’m pretty sure.
January 8, 2009 at 11:19 pm
Hey Obama still not President yet. Its not over till the lord says “thus saith”.
January 25, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Jeff,
Well, he’s President now. Not “legally”, in my opinion. Personally, I think he’s just a precursor to the REAL Antichrist. Obama and his “worshippers” are merely giving us a glimpse as to what it will be like when the real Antichrist presents himself to the world, in my opinion.
January 26, 2009 at 5:58 am
It’s amazing that all this stuff is stirred up now — a President with a very leftist agenda and is in charge of a nation on the verge of collapse (taking other countries with us as we fall), his friend Oprah who promotes New Age ideology through New Age gurus such as Eckhart Tolle and Marianne Williamson. Are we moving to a one world order, where the intent is to make God and our beloved Jesus just a dim memory? I wonder, and I wouldn’t be surprised if some day not in the too distant future we will have a definite answer. Be ready.
January 27, 2009 at 3:13 pm
I’m a christian but when I read some of the things you write, I get very scared. I accepted Christ as my savior, but now I have christian friends who say tell me I won’t get blessed unless I tithe (we suffered a severe financial set-back a few years ago and are still recovering from it)and they are also telling me if there is sin in my life or if my heart isn’t right I’ll lose my salvation. It really scares me because I want to go to Heaven and I believed everything Jesus said. If I tithed I wouldn’t be able to pay all my bills and they say I lack faith and that disappoints God. I try to live the best way I can, but from time to time I get angry, I say things I shouldn’t, but I ask God to forgive me. Does it mean I have sin in my life if I don’t like someone or if I get angry? I just wish people wouldn’t have said things to make my joy away. I don’t want to go to Hell.
October 10, 2014 at 8:01 pm
Jesus said, “If you believe in me you will surely not be disappointed.”
October 10, 2014 at 8:05 pm
The Bible says, “And what does He (God) want us to do, believe in whom He sent.”
January 27, 2009 at 5:39 pm
Why worry…Do not despair and tell fear (aka satan) to take a hike. Churches today have mis-quoted/interpretated God’s word when it comes to tithing. They (churches) have convinced people that God’s directive of tithing was only applicable to the monies that people earn…The churches would have people think that what we give in money is the only way to recieve God’s blessing… what a crock of bullwhacky that is. There are many ways to tithe (give back) to God. Think of it this way… what need does God have that money can buy? A fancy building with all the trappings? A minister who “earns” a salary? These are the trappings of man not God. Ask this question of yourself; Where in your Bible does it say that you must give money to have salvation? Nowhere thats where…God does not tie our salvation to money given to chruches…We are judged on our faith and our works, not monies given to the trappings of man. Read the Sermon on the Mount St. Matthews Chapter 5. When it comes to tithing one must work within the limits that one has if money it tight look at other ways in which to tithe/honour/serve God. Clean out your closet and take the items to a charity… volunteer at a soup kitchen…take a Veteran/friend to a doctors appointment…Remember Jesus’ words… whatever you do to/for the least of these the same have you also done to/for me. Our time spent serving the Lord is way more precious to Him than anything our money can buy…BTW… NO one can take your joy unless you allow it…do not allow it!!
Peace to all.
January 27, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Thank you JC!
You have indeed lifted my spirits. I hear that preached all the time and he quotes scripture to support the teaching & I get confused. In my heart it’s as if God is telling me not to worry and that he loves me, and I believe he does. But I’m being taught he won’t bless me unless I tithe. I don’t want to miss out on any blessings.
Thank you again. I’ll read Matthew.
January 27, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Your welcome…our blessing/salvation from the Almighty are not dependant on what we pay…it is dependant on He paid. I will remember you in my prayers!!!
Peace to all!!
January 28, 2009 at 11:28 am
JC. Please pray. I read Matthew. My husband thinks we should just give what we can afford and to give more as we can. I agree with that, but I feel guilty when the pastor preaches tithing the way he does. I always felt that God judges what you give by what you keep and what you use it for. There are so many people in our church struggling and I’m sure they must feel like I do. I just have a real problem with this. Some would say I’m being convicted by the HOly Spirit because I feel this way. Sometimes I think I’d be better off not even going to church so I don’t have to feel like I’m missing the mark. I’m not greedy and I don’t spend alot of money on myself. We’re middle class, have a nice home but not a mansion, we had three kids, and the last one will be graduating from a major university in April. We made sure all of our kids have college educations. I don’t like feeling like I’ve robbed God.
January 28, 2009 at 11:17 pm
Douglas, so he is like John the Baptist in a twisted way? I can buy that.
January 29, 2009 at 3:11 am
Mrs DJ…LOL…so nicely/sweetly put…Thanks for the giggle!!!
January 31, 2009 at 6:09 am
Mrs. DJ,
“Douglas, so he is like John the Baptist in a twisted way? I can buy that.”
Sort of, I suppose. But not exactly. The world is being prepared to receive the Antichrist, in my opinion, and part of that preparation involves stirring people up to adore their leaders, to look to them for a sort of “salvation” from worldly cares, and to do so while rejecting God, whether explicitly or implicitly. Obama might be the tricycle before the Harley.
February 10, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Hey Doug I had a dream the other day. Obama was President then he got kicked out and replaced by Bill Frist. It was a very quick dream and I have had so many dreams come true now and the ones that come from God are all the same. The second I wake up I know there from God. The quickest dream I ever had was finding out I had Jewish blood in me as that was instant, then the next was one that came true, two days after I dreamed it.
April 14, 2009 at 1:45 am
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April 19, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Is obama the antichrist? – Page 50 – Christian Forums
Why did you fail to mention Prince Felipe of Asturias in your statement? The handsome Prince.
April 28, 2009 at 1:42 pm
You can all quit looking for the anti-christ and get back to your jobs at the convenience store. I know where he is. I work for him. he is doing fine. he is just biding his time. He appreciates your interest, but would prefer to remain out of the public eye…for NOW!!!
April 30, 2009 at 6:15 am
Jeff,
That’s cool (about your dreams). I’ve had a few that I know were from God (only one that had any prophetic significance, if I am remembering them all and correctly).
I don’t know who “Bill Frist” is, actually. I’ve heard of him, and I’m afraid he’s a politician, but I won’t hold that against him until I’ve researched him a bit more. I don’t know if Obama will be removed from office or not, but I DO know that there are several serious lawsuits across the nation seeking to have him prove his eligibility to be President, and I also know that Obama’s response to these has been to ridicule them and to do his very uttermost best to avoid directly addressing them, spending over a million dollars so far having lawyers try to block his having to produce his vaulted birth certificate, which he could do for less than $15. Obviously, only an honest man with nothing to hide tries to hide his birth certificate from view.
April 30, 2009 at 6:22 am
JD,
“You can all quit looking for the anti-christ and get back to your jobs at the convenience store.”
Hey, I haven’t worked at a convenience store since the time they were actually rather inconvenient. That would be nigh on 20 years now, by the way.
“I know where he is. I work for him.”
Excellent. Can he rotate his head 360 degrees?
“He is doing fine.”
Eventually, he will be doing time, for eternity. But an Antichrist’s got to do what an Antichrist’s got to do, right?
“He is just biding his time.”
The stinker.
“He appreciates your interest, but would prefer to remain out of the public eye…for NOW!!!”
Is he getting an extreme makeover?
May 23, 2009 at 4:38 am
Hello,
This is my first post here, so please bear with my if I haven’t read the whole thing. Aren’t we forgetting that Jesus said that no one knows the time, only God the Father? With that being said, Satan doesn’t know when the time will come to release the AntiChrist, so he has to have one or more floating around out there at all times just waiting for God to give the ok. As for dreams and “feelings” that God is speaking to you, you may want to be careful with that. Your presidential vision was incorrect, regardless of the reason, and the Bible cautions us about basing our decisions on emotions. I assume you’re on this board because you do care what the Bible has to say!
If not even Satan knows when the AntiChrist will come to power, we presume a lot by saying that we know anything other than that these people could be it, maybe.
Thanks!
June 2, 2009 at 8:34 pm
Doug,
Bill Frist is the son of Nancy and Ronald Reagan. He has Ronald’s chin and Nancy’s Nose. I have seen Bill Frists so called parents and he looks more like the Reagans then the people that raised him.
I use to see Frist in Speeches in 2004-05 and thought he resembled Reagan. Then one day my brother said “ick”, he looks just like Nancy Reagan. So I compared the photos and saw they were his real parents.
He was the Senate Republican majority leader from 2003 to 2007. Right after Trent Lott lost leadership postition in 2002 for his Strom Thurmom Comments Frist replaced him.
Then it was the second time I saw Frist on TV as he was speaking from the Minority leader postions for the Republicans in 2002 I knew he would be the next President after Bush. And since Obama is illegitimatly the President I did not falsy Prophecy when I said Frist would be the get in after Bush. Cause Obama is not really the President.
In 2005 he snuck a bill in that blocks people from suing for putting mecury in the vacines. He wanted to run for President in 2007 but he got sick and didn’t run. He bloated up from 2007-08 like he was getting some kind of treatment for cancer or something.
Last I saw his health is returning and hes slimming down.
June 15, 2009 at 8:23 pm
Everyone needs to look at the European Neighbourhood Policy, Signed by Javier Solana…Check it out for yourself..too much info to write here.
June 15, 2009 at 8:24 pm
It is a 7 year agreement that was “confirmed” from the Barcelona process in 1995. It was official in 2007 with a midterm review on the protection and welfare of animals.
June 15, 2009 at 8:27 pm
Oh and btw the agreement also included Israel and 15 Mediterannean rim countries.
October 2, 2009 at 7:08 pm
He just looks evil…isn’t that enough! This is some funny sutff, my termite inspector told me he knew that King Juan Carlos was the Antichrist…sell crazy someplace else, we’re all stocked up here!
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November 28, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Hikmer,
Said the guest to the host. But it’s not “crazy talk”. The Bible clearly says there will be an individual in the Last Days who fulfills particular prophecies, prophecies which King Juan Carlos seems to, and to be able to, fulfill. And this person will be the Antichrist. There are many clear signs indicating that, as Jesus said, the Time is “near, even at the door”.
Mockery is easy; refutation is hard. It seems to me the strongest argument against King Juan Carlos being the Antichrist is his advanced age. I’ve never claimed that he IS the Antichrist, just that it has seemed (and stills seems to me) that he likely is.
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Does anyone know who coined the phrase “From the goo, through the zoo to you, over millions of years”.?
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Thanx
Thanx
S
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January 15, 2011 at 5:34 pm
Hi,
wonderful job well let my add to the post. At the age of 5 Jesus apppeared to mysle and a friend in 1975 the year Juan Carlos wan crowned king. Get this this was at a Lutheran Church remember Luther called that pope a anti christ and Charles the fifth Juan Carlos distant relative was holy roman emepror at the time. And this church is located in Troy, MI look it up on the internet it is St. Augusting Lutheran church
and it is on Mckinley street. President Mckinley was the American president that fought the war against the spanish and mexico. So I feel Jesus was giving me and all of a us a clue to who the anti-christ will be. And remember the story of Troy and the Trojan horse well a false peace ushred in and accepted by the church would lead to its collapse and persecution just the city of ancient Troy did in the Greek emprie. It is also kind of neat about my name also bi ll bl ak e or bible well later may the peace and love of Jesus Christ be with always.
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May 30, 2011 at 4:52 pm
amazing morons these RCs
the EU has no armys, has only conflict and debt – Spain economy is in the toilet
yeah the AC Leader is so incompetent so I’m not worried
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October 18, 2011 at 10:51 am
The antichrist could be antichrist prince felipe or prince william, or the antichrist could be the president of the united states, and do some research on prince william from the britain royal family on youtube and you will see what im talking about and it will tell you that prince william will come to power in 2015 and he will be 33 years old and do some research on the britain royal family history as well.
October 18, 2011 at 11:03 am
The antichrist could be prince felipe or prince william from britain, or president of united states, but 88% the antichrist could be prince felipe and 94% the antichrist could be prince william, do some research on prince william on youtube and you will see what im talking about, prince william suppose to come to power in 2015 and he will be 33 years old, and do some research on britain royal family history as well.
October 18, 2011 at 11:33 am
the people that controls the government and the world are illuminati, freemasons, builderberg and some are rothlischilds like david rocafeller and the rest of them pulling strings behind every and 9/11 was a inside job to start a war.
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March 1, 2012 at 10:44 pm
If u all looking for the anti christ, U all going to miss the comming of the Lord because he going to take out the true beliver before he is revealed! yes it could be Carlos or his son, or prince William for that matter.Any way the key here is to keep looking for Jesus because in the twinkeling of the eye,the dead iChrist rise first than those of us who are alive are suddenly taken from the earth. After such, he who shall be revealed shall do great wonders. At that time. So it don’t matter whether which one it is. If you belive and confessed your belief before men that Jesus is the Son of God and asked Him to come into your heart. He(Jesus) promised to take you out of tribulation. you won’t be here on earth,so what does it matter whether you identified the antichrist or not. One mans belief, Mr. D Doty 3/1/2012
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June 29, 2013 at 5:49 pm
I was wrong Prince Felipe is not the Antichrist.
October 10, 2014 at 7:51 pm
You were right! Why have you changed your mind? You need to be patient and wait for his appearance!
October 10, 2014 at 7:54 pm
I haven’t changed my mind 14 years after I sealed up Felipe’s name in July 2000!
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Li Nina at last "high maintenance" said ligament suture not suffering the same clinic, the same unit, the same medical doctor, "Snow Princess" because of leg ministry structures injury was on the surgical intervention table, but this should be him last operation of the on the internet. To reporters yesterday discovered No.3 Hospital to Beijing University, has just given the operation of Li Nina. In Sochi Olympic freestyle skiing soon to be mom aerials final, [url=http://www.clearweather.com/sitemap/Oakley-Glasses-Gascans-Canteen-Romeo.html]Oakley Romeo[/url] Li Nina in the last round the out-of-date wound recrudescence. This Tuesday, your girl accepted the right leg tendon operation in No.Five Hospital of Beijing As well as college. Due to injury than presumed light, she may as we speak will be discharged. The 1 Winter Olympics the old wound recrudescence start with operation "revisit" Li Nina do this operation strives to partially torn legal right leg ligament repair, operation is scheduled on Tuesday of the first, the whole process a single.5 hours, just after 13 a.m., she was previously out of the operation room. Professional medical the first time Li Nina due to a hamstring an injury at. At the beginning of 2013, his or her right leg in preparing ligament rupture, at that time in No.3 Hospital within Beijing University accepted functionality. In the end she rehabilitation to revisit the training ground, the distance created by Sochi Winter Olympics has only about 50 % of the time. In Sochi Olympic freestyle skiing partner aerials final, Li Nina in order to win all of the gold medal, took out 2 week ultimate difficulty coefficient reached often 3.9, she decreased in the snow, right lower calf ligament injury recurrence. At this juncture, the Russian doctors presume Li Nina ligament has not completely violated, can China return treatment options after simple treatment; and also American team doctor just after looking over the test results whom her ligament has shortcoming, serious injury, and strongly suggested her to USA therapies and rehabilitation. Finally, Li Nina in a wheelchair with China delegation delivered. After a short rest, re-conditioning the wound was try out the agenda again. Li Nina thought they would do the operation a year ago, my girlfriend was admitted to the Not for.3 Hospital of Beijing University, and last one ward, face the same generate. But in order not to encourage the family worry, she also did not let the family give yourself. And journalists on the chat, Li Nina smiled and enumerate their previous in No.3 Center of Beijing University dealings, she said as "each of our operation to her again", can say some melancholy, this should be your wife career last operation. Li Nina is normally 31 years old, and therapy after the end of the instructing, she should also officially the actual. She participated in the 4 Snow Olympics, won 2 sterling silver medals. If not for the passion for Freestyle Skiing Aerials this project, she’ll not adhere to the present, this one cause in to her give to also bring her ailments, now going to leave, this lady a bit easier, more still uncertain. 2 ligament suture and no painful sensation after waking appetite at this point, doctor Zhou Chenze has been accompanied by Li Nina. Your man told reporters, the first day immediately following operation, the anesthetic capability is not completely dissipated, Li Nina always be [url=http://www.gopcalls.com/style/True-Religion-Outlet-Size-Chart-Jeans-For-Men-Clothing.html]True Religion Clothing[/url] drowsy straws., she fell asleep, blood pressure and as well as heart rate will fall too low, only 70 or so larger. Li Nina slept less than half an hour, school week doctor woke her rising. Li Nina awoke hungry, looking at those who work in the room fruit, snacks, [url=http://www.reddynreddypharma.com/news/Ray-Ban-Sunglasses-Outlet-Reading-Glasses-For-Men-4057-Polarized-8302.html]Ray Ban 8302[/url] that lady constantly asked the doctor: "Allowed me to eat this newspaper
May 27, 2014 at 5:17 am
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May 29, 2014 at 2:20 am
The World Table Tennis Championships in the Japan Chinese Liu Shiwen was "abandoned" and also no final World Players Table Tennis Championships China Nvping inside of Japan and Germany Asian Nanping correspondent Yang Min newspaper Tokyo on 4 May, unquestionably the fifty-second session of the world team ping pong championships today at Yoyogi athletic field men and women out of the last two firm. China Nvping won by Numerous goals to 0 using the semi-final and Singapore Nvping in. Tomorrow night time time, China female pingpong will take on the Japanese women’s team most of the corbillon cup. In the semi-finals, China Nanping in your ratio of 3 to 8 victory over Chinese Taipei Nanping Nanping, Australia in 3 to 1 off host Japan team. Future afternoon, the two teams definitely compete for the Swaythling cup. Germany’s Pohl in 2011 just when the father, delivered a girl he during the sports on in Germany basically more caring, when he discovered that the table tennis veteran Wang Hao at the same time at the end of last year, a new baby toddler, immediately set "doll dear": "they don’t rule out the partner everybody doubles, perhaps more ought to get married." Moscow has always been in the shadow, in Liu Shiwen’s view, this training of Tokyo World Finals, she is the opportunity to coach groups to prove his strength. It is third time she employed a lawyer in China female pingpong Whole Team Table Tennis championships. The year of 2010, she became the first womens singles at the world finals in Moscow, in and the Singapore folks finals, she had lost two locations, a battle with Ding Ning, Guo Titled ping to 1 than 3 lost, 8 consecutive dreams. Businesses, Liu Shiwen has not been able to come out on the defeat, has [url=http://www.stable.com/sitemap/Kate-Spade-Bag-Lobster-Bag-Essex-Scout-Bag-Jules-Wallet.html]Kate Spade Bag[/url] lost to finally South Korea and Singapore player elizabeth 2010 Guangzhou [url=http://www.clearweather.com/sitemap/Discount-Oakley-Sunglasses-Crankcase-Antix-Frames.html]Oakley Frames[/url] Asian Games and also the 2012 Asian Cup woman’s team competition. Two years in at the World Table Tennis Competition in Dortmund, although Liu Shiwen was targeted in the 5 man group, but she has been omitted from the three main individuals for the London Olympic games. United states Championships in Moscow to be considered as Chinese Nvping future elder brother Liu Shiwen fell into the abyss. The World Table Tennis Championships in Tokyo, japan in 2016 the Rio Olympics "twelfth grade entrance examination", country pingpong head educate Liu Guoliang before the game was made, individuals selected 10 players is the only Rio Olympics team squad. Liu Shiwen for the "straight win a tournament for his team solution contest in Tokyo", "before Since i in the world team table tennis finals performance is not ideal, think about have a chance to prove himself around tokyo." Came to Tokyo, Liu Shiwen learn a smooth, keep the victory in their group stage. Get to the ko stage in the 1/4 finals, Liu Shiwen was determined for the three man line-up. Train Kong Linghui said, in fact, before together game, 5 players downline are offered. "Two years ago, I had developed no chance at Dortmund World Community Table Tennis Championships against the Singapore company, this time if you can play the moment again, I will not let coach troubled." However, the semi-finals this main today, playing without Liu Shiwen lineup. The women’s class in the semi-final today, Li Xiaoxia to 3 to a single over Singapore women’s number one [url=http://www.ltcfnj.org/grantService.php]Gucci Outlet Online[/url] single men and women Feng Tian Wei; Ding Ning in the next match triumph in Mengyu; Zhu Yuling also deliver the things, with 3 than 1 defeat of Li Siyun. In the very main force Li Jiawei and Wang Yuegu launched onto, Feng Tian Wei rely on hard support from Singapore women’s gap and planet in the overall strength importantly, result is expected. Liu Shiwen tried, always aspired to go after the game, Liu Shiwen lonely single point from the match. Point
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